PJP Welder Test

Date 12-17-2008 17:34

The way I see it- if you are qualifying to D1.1 you have a choice of CJP grooves or fillet welds. That's on plate or pipe. Anything else would be a special case that is subject to approval by the customer, but is not per D1.1.

I'm not sure what you mean by PJP fillets; can you elaborate?

By Kix

Date 12-17-2008 21:31

Just qualify them with a fillet weld break test and or macro etching in the position of choice and then they are qualified for fillet welds. You can test them with PJP groove welds as well using macro etch. You need to know what they will be welding on before you decide what test they need to take. Each test has a limit to there range of qualification. You also want to pick a test that they will not have to much trouble with. I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as a PJP fillet weld.

By swsweld (****)

Date 12-17-2008 21:46

I agree with Chet. Whether it's Table 4.1 (WPS) or Table 4.8 (Welder Qualification) it's either a groove or a fillet. I see no specific test for PJP except for a groove. You should be able to go with your original preference and test for CJP.

Even the TYK's fall under the CJP.

By 803056

Date 12-18-2008 03:55

I believe you can qualify the welder for partial joint penetration groove welds by having them weld a partial joint penetration groove weld, performing a couple of macroetch samples to verify the weld size is obtained and then machine the samples to 3/8 inch thick and perform a "root bend" and a "face bend".

The test would only qualify the welder for the specific groove geometry tested. That is, he would not be qualified for fillet welds or other groove welds having different groove angles or CJP using back gouging or backing.

The basis of the qualification testing would be per AWS B2.1 as a "mock-up" or production weld. It would only be acceptable if the company is an OEM or if the EOR approves the testing regiment.

Check the specifics of B2.1. I don't have the standard with me while I travel, but I recollect that B2.1 allows for such testing. My advice is worth just what you pay for it, nothing until you check out the details and verify they apply to your situation.

In my opinion, you would be ahead of the game if you simply tested the welders using a groove weld with backing and any controversy would evaporate as the early morning mist on a sunny day.

Best regards - Al

By Bryan Bidewell (*)

Date 12-22-2008 10:01

I've decided to go with my original preference of a CJP Groove Weld, my only issue is that within AWSD1.1 I can only find test setups with backing plates. We don't use backing plates so can anyone advise where I can find reference to CJP welder qualifications without backing plates?

By Kix

Date 12-22-2008 14:01

Well, you can still use a backing strip for the welder qualification testing to get them qualified for PJP joints. If you don't want to use a backing strip then the only other option is to backgouge. Backgouging is actually the easier test of the two.

By Bryan Bidewell (*)

Date 01-08-2009 11:56

Thanks for you response reference backing strip however I was actually looking to find within AWS the set up diagrams etc to carry out a CJP Weld Test without backing strips and back gouging, we don't use either in our processes. Can anybody point me in the right direction?

By Kix

Date 01-08-2009 13:29

Are you going to start using open root joints in your processes? If your not, then why go through all the trouble of the open root seam? The joint you're after is not prequalified and will have to be qualified by testing which cost quiet a few bucks. Then once you have a qualified WPS, you can go to testing your welders. The information you seek is found in section 4 of D1.1. When you are qualifying a joint you can use your prefered (joint to be used in production) root open, bevel angle etc etc.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 01-08-2009 13:37

Open root butt welds are not prequalified in D1.1 so one way you could go is to take the dimensions used in a prequalified joint minus the backing strip and then qualify the procedure per section 4.

This may open a can of worms for you.... GMAW spray transfer is difficult to weld open root, So Short circuiting transfer is more common for open roots with a spray transfer fill.... Short ciruciting transfer is commonly used for 3/8 open root V groove tests but in reality short circuiting transfer is not economical for material of that thickness and lack of fusion in production is common.

SMAW open root welds are mostly done with E6010 for the root and E7018 for the fill... or E6010 all the way out. E7018 can be run open root but it takes a very high welder skill level.

FCAW and MCAW are even more difficult to run open root.

Furthermore I doubt that any of the options listed above come close to being like what you actually do in production which is the reason for the test in the first place eh?

I think some of the other suggestions above might more closesly capture the nature of your production welds and therefore be a better fit for a welder performance qualification test.

By Kix

Date 01-08-2009 20:30 Edited 01-08-2009 20:36

Why would you want to test your welders to an open root seam if you have no WPS and don't even do it in production? I know a guy wants to get the best welders available, but he might find what he needs quicker if he prescribes a different test. I'm curious to know what his methods are. No pun intended, but this guy is taking old route 66 to Cali instead of the interstate.