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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Chems on MTR
- - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 12-17-2008 16:39
What would you do?
I have a Purchase order; this PO requires the Sulfur content to be less than .02, the special provisions on this job(from customer) requires the sulfur to be no greater .020.
The MTR states the sulfur is .027 on one and the other is .025.
We did not write the po to .000 places but the special prov do call out 3 places.
Would you  reject this steel?

MDK
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 12-17-2008 17:14
What material are you talking about?
What service would it be?
Shootin from the hip there should be little difference between .020 and .027 S, though both are quite high in this day and age.
Your problem will be finding a customer rep that actually understands what the S means to his product and discussing it intelligently, as opposed to an inherited S max specification in which case few really know its significance.
I wouldn't reject it, I'd first try and talk to the customer.
Delivery impacts and cost are good motivators.
Of course, since your purchasing department ovelooked the requirement your sorta goin to the customer with hat in hand.
Never easy.
Parent - - By bozaktwo1 (***) Date 12-17-2008 17:24
If it's a typical mill cert (MTR) then I would check with the vendor to make sure they included the correct MTR with the load.  A lot of vendors will include typical MTRs, unless you require traceability.  I agree, you should definitely talk to the customer.  .007 doesn't sound like much, but I imagine the .020 max is there for a reason.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-18-2008 04:16
As the welding inspector or as a member of the QC staff, you are responsible to verify the material complies with the project specification or purchase order by comparing the MTR to the requirements. If the material is "out of spec" the information should be passed up the chain of command to someone that has the authority to allow an exception to the requirements.

In this case, you noted that the project specification only carries to the second place decimal. The MTR carries to the third place decimal. The normal rules of rounding would be applicable. If the third place decimal is 0.005 or larger, the second place decimal is rounded up. If the third place decimal is less than 0.005, the second place decimal is rounded down.

Based on the numbers you provided, the material is "out of spec" and it is the responsibility of someone higher up in the chain of command to make an exception if the material is to be accepted as is.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 12-18-2008 14:20
i did send it back to purchasing.
MDK
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 12-18-2008 15:58
Mikeqc1

I would not accept the material based on the 0.02 MAXIMUM.  Rounding down rules don't matter is the "Maximum" is exceeded.

Depending on your actual job description, it may be appropriate to make some inquiries to engineering or the customer, Etc.

Joe Kane
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 12-19-2008 01:24
Joe, I have to agree with you. After rereading the initial post, I stand corrected. The project specification listed the maximum to the third place decimal, e.g., 0.020, thus anything over the maximum is nonconforming.

Good call.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 12-19-2008 16:08
Thanks for the info,
Have any of you ever had a simmilar issue?
When this was rejected the mill sent another cert, that was acceptable, but i wonder.............
Parent - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 12-19-2008 17:10
Mikeqc1

In Bridge work, where Federal Funds are used, there is a "Made and Melted In the USA" requirement.  It has to be stated on the MTR.  I have received the same MTR with M&MIUSA added into it, several times after I had rejected the Material for not having it.  Many times it is re-touched by the steel service center.  I then have to go back further to the Mill. 

Twice I have been given the MTR for the same heat number, whit changed chemistry  values listed on it.  Once it was fraud.  Once it was legitimate due to multiple product thicknesses poured from the same heat.

I am always skeptical when this happens, and usually run it past the State Engineer In Charge.

I have other strange things happen with MTRs for steel supplied by Bayou Steel, North Star Steel-Kentucky, Ryerson Steel (Involving Russian Steel), and even Bethlehem Steel.

I have had pipe with one stenciled heat number on one end and a second stenciled heat number on the other end, a third paint pen marked heat number and yet a fourth paint pen marked heat number on one 44 Ft. long piece of pipe.

I have had low stress dot impressioned heat marks punched on one side of an elbow and high stress heat marks punched on the other side of the same elbows.  ( They were supposed to have low stress heat marks).

I have had totally phony MTRs, where two different type fonts were used.

Nothing would surprise me!

Joe Kane 
Parent - By HgTX (***) Date 12-30-2008 18:20
No greater than 0.020 means that with rounding to the right number of significant figures you could have 0.02004.  Not 0.027.  Not 0.025.

Less than 0.02 means that with rounding to the right number of significant figures you could have 0.024.  Not 0.027.  Not 0.025.

0.027 is almost half again the specified limit.  "0.007 doesn't sound like much" isn't true where 0.02 is your limit.  Everything is relevant.

Hg
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