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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Questions?
- - By Mike Swanson Date 12-04-2001 00:59
Hello My name is Mike Swanson I am a CWI, welding instructor and a professional welder. My problem is where I teach at we have 3 campuses they all teach welding and there is some differences in ideas on what welder certification is and how it must be done. Being we are from a small populated area there are no welding consultants or welding test facilities so we fill in as that for area industries. We work with everything from ASME code shops to production welders in factories. So I have put a list of questions together to see if anyone can help me.

1. What is Welder Certification?
2. What is Welder Qualification?
3. If a company comes to us and says they want to certify their welders and the items they are building would be classified as structural items, how should we go about accomplishing this?
4. For insurance purposes does a welder have to be qualified/certified at an AWS test facility if the person doing the testing follows the D1.1 code book?
5. What is the difference between a welder that gets qualified/certified at an AWS test facility and one from a person that follows the D1.1 code book?
6. Who can certify a welder?

I know these may sound like simple questions but if anyone can give me the answers to these questions in a timely matter, or if you can give me a name and email of a person that could help me, your help would be greatly appreciated.
Parent - - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 12-04-2001 03:34
1 and 2 even confuse me sometimes. Many certify (Obtain certificates kinda) without being qualified (Having the skills or abilities to perform the actual task). Example >>> You are qualified to Drive a car. If you change states you will probably have to re-certify. You may have been qualified before you took the driving test for the 1st time. But you certified at the test.

I walk onto a jobsite a "qualified welder" but to the company and end user I am not certified until tested.

3. The "Company" bears the burden of certifying their welders (In most cases). You could provide them with training on the requirements of their specific code of construction, materials, bend tests or RT and even train the welders. They sign on the bottom line.

4- NO. If I wake up tomorrow and start "Gerald Austins real fine weldin and stuff" and decide I wanna do some "D1.1 Code Work" and I get a contract for welding BBQ grills that requires my grills be welded by welders and procedures that are qualified/certified in accordance with AWS D1.1 and ASME Sec IX then all I do is perform tests as described in those documents, record the variables, test the welds, fill out the papers, sign the welders papers and I've done it. The AWS test facility is NOT needed , neither is a CWI. Its nice when you use a CWI only because it gives me a job but it is absolutely not required.

5 The prior is registered in a database I beleive that maintains the records. I'm not sure what all benefits are provided but I am sure they involve cost. If I wanted to go test at an "Accredited test facility" I am nearly sure there would be a charge in excess of materials and shop time at a reasonable markup.

6 The Manufacturer/Fabricator. Absolutely is no 3rd party involvement required. A QA manual with supporting procedures would normally spell out authority for "Special Processes" and the associated qualification/certification. This is related to AWS D1.1/ASME Sec IX welder and Procedure qualification only.


Feel free to email me with specific questions but I would prefer posting here. Others could then learn and or correct any incorrect information. Either way I would be glad to help.

gaus@weldinginspectionsvcs.com
Parent - By RonG (****) Date 12-04-2001 15:44
Certified Semantics!


"Certified" A loosely applied term indicating a person has paper to show he/she is "Qualified" to weld in a giving procedure to a giving Code.


If a person goes about promulgating he is a certified welder (API, AWS or ASME), that does not mean he his qualified to weld in my shop to my procedures because, he has no papers of certifaction on file with us.

Parent - - By Baker (*) Date 12-04-2001 16:31
Mike,
Call the Hobart Institute - Certification at 1-800-332-9448, ext. 5107. I believe they will be able to answer most of these questions for you.
Parent - By MBSims (****) Date 12-04-2001 22:44
Marketing folks........
Parent - By DGXL (***) Date 12-04-2001 18:50
1. "Written verification that a welder has produced welds meeting a prescribed standard of welder performance."

2. "The demonstration of a welder's ability to produce welds meeting prescribed standards."
[ref: AWS A3.0]

3. If they are structural, then the governing code would take presendence (e.g.: D1.1 thru D1.6 as applicable).

4. No.

5. I qualify welders on a regular basis, it depends on the governing jurisdiction who is qualified to perform performance/procedure testing. Some jurisdictions require this testing to be performed by an approved (by the jursdiction) laboratory. I monitor the tests and record the welding data, submit the coupons to one of several test labs that I use, then report the results by a Registered Inspector's Report and issue the documentation (WPS/PQR or WPQR and wallet cards). Some of the local testing labs have made claims that only THEY can certify welders for a given jurisdiction, I have proven this assumption wrong a multitude of times while still compying with the jurisdictions requirements. I also have never had any of this documentation come back as being non-conforming.

6. It depends what code, standard or specification you are using to qualify your client's welding personnel to and the end users requirements.
Some agencies (e.g.: DOT/Caltrans) using the D1.5 code requires an approved inspector or SCWI/CWI to witness testing and an approved lab to peform the actual mechanical testing. All of this is witnessed by an owners representative. In this situation, the inspector who monitors the testing (WPQR or PQR) has to be approved as well as the lab performing the NDT and/or mechanical testing.

In a nutshell, your last 3 questions are dependent on the clients requirements.
Parent - - By Ronalb (*) Date 12-11-2001 16:39
DGXL has your best answer.
Parent - - By MBSims (****) Date 12-12-2001 05:44
What I want to know is how many other "CWI's" have these kinds of questions about welder qualification. I thought a CWI was supposed to have demonstrated a knowledge of Code requirements for welder qualification as part of the exam and required experience.

Marty
Parent - By pipewelder_1999 (****) Date 12-12-2001 11:20
With no offence intended to anyone here, I think you just have to know these things the day after taking your AWS CWI Prep course.

Kinda like hooked on phonics. My child can pronounce many words but knows little about what they mean.
Parent - - By R. Johnson (**) Date 12-12-2001 14:48
A CWI has been tested to a particular welding code. The test is to examine whether or not the CWI has the ability to interpret the welding code. Not all CWI's have experience in multiple welding codes. But all CWI should be able to find the appropriate information given the latest edition of the welding code. So when you state "Code", just what welding code are you referring to? There are various differences between the welding codes for welding and welding operator qualifications.
Again I can't stress strongly enough, the CWI exam is not a test of the persons knowledge of the welding code contain in their head. It tests the person's ability to find the information in the code book. Welding code frequently change and one should always examine the written requirements and not rely on your own memory of what you think the code says. Hope this helps.
Parent - - By DGXL (***) Date 12-12-2001 17:20
Testing (WPS/PQR/WPQR) requirements varies greatly. Many CWI's are not Deputy or Special Building inspectors. Many CWI's work in the aerospace or petrochemical industries, they would not know the requirements that the Building/Code officials specify without going to sit another exam.
By the way, many jurisdictions require their own exam in addition to a ICBO special inspector examination/certification. Also, a CWI is not enough to perform Deputy/Special inspection, the Building Officials are now starting to look at the CWI program in addition to the other testing required to perform weld performance or procedure qualification.

The problem most have is that they assume if a CWI is specified in the contracts, this is the best choice as far as structural steel and welding is concerned. WRONG.

For many projects here in CA, they require a Deputy inspector to have a CWI in addition to the other certifications or licenses. This may soon become required by the city and county of Los Angeles.

A CWI does not have the knowledge (without training) about high strength bolting, testing for these connections, erection tolerances, building code requirements, and local jurisdiction requirements. Did I forget plan reading? As a building inspector, it usually requires bringing the D1.1, D1.3, D1.4, AISC ASD, the UBC or IBC, and finally any local jurisdiction codes. CWI's do not what some of these references are.
An ICBO inspector typically does not know the welding material as well as "most" CWI's such as control of consumables, reviewing welding related documents, etc. Imagine having an ICBO inspector looking at a cat-cracker or knockout drum unit in a petrochemical environment...

These are two very different exams for two very different inspection types. It has been proposed in the past to grandfather a CWI into the ICBO certification - WRONG AGAIN. This will only further undermine the building inspection trade. Many Building Officials and Engineers complain about the quality of inspectors, but do not know why the CWI did not verify the conditions of the faying surfaces of that slip critical SMRF connection. Conversely, the ICBO inspector they requested did not know about the electrode storage requirements or what to do with the WPS he/she was given to review for the project.

I'm not saying a CWI cannot perform as a building inspector, a qualifier of welds (performance or procedure) or vice versa. I am saying both of these certifications have their place. Ultimately, the individual determines how well an inspection proceeds.
Parent - By DGXL (***) Date 12-13-2001 09:36
Two items I forgot to mention:
1. ICBO ES acceptance criteria AC 172 (July 2001), section 4.6.1 permits a third party AWS-QC1 inspector (SCWI or CWI) to qualify welders for any fabricator with an ICBO ES approval (evaluation report).

2. A fabricator certified by ICBO ES must have a full time SCWI or CWI on there staff as a QC inspector (not a third party).

This program is finally getting the recognition it deserves.
There's two more slots for qualified welding inspectors as well.
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Questions?

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