Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic Welding Industry / Welding Fundamentals / stainless passivation
- - By mountainman (***) Date 01-21-2009 17:31
i've got some 304 stainless rails that we are going to have to passivate per the spec for the job. i have never had any experience with passivation. is there a spray or wipe-on product that can be used to do this? and i am assuming it would be the last process done after all the finishing work is completed. any help or tips would be appreciated.

JJ
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 01-21-2009 17:54
Hello Jeremiah, De-Rust-It would be one example of such an agent and there are other products as well. I believe if you use the search function of the forum and possibly type in "Stainless Passivation" you will find some examples of various products and discussions concerning their use. Chuck Meadows of Avesta was one individual who contributed immensely here to the forum on this and other such topics, he is gone now, yet his words live on with us on this site. Best of luck and best regards, Allan
Parent - - By mountainman (***) Date 01-21-2009 18:24 Edited 01-21-2009 18:33
thanks Allan, i'll check that out!

JJ

edit, did a search and learned what i needed to know. thanks, Chuck Meadows.
Parent - - By flamin (**) Date 01-21-2009 18:34
I've never heard of a spray can process for passivation, not to say it doens't exist.  But generally the stainless part is immersed in a solution of nitric acid with oxidizing salts for a time of about 10-30 minutes. This gives the solution time to dissolve any impurities that may be imbedded in the surface. The acid solution will vary depending on the type of SS you're dealing with, 200,300, or 400 series.
Parent - - By mountainman (***) Date 01-21-2009 19:32
we are going to use a paste for the welded areas, and for all the other areas (since it has come into contact at variuos points with carbon steel) i am looking into some spray on products from Walters that would take care of large surface areas...maybe

JJ
Parent - - By flamin (**) Date 01-21-2009 19:57
I would be interested to find out what product you end up using. It might be something I could look into possibly using here.
Parent - - By mountainman (***) Date 01-21-2009 20:42
when i get it all figuered out i'll let ya know. we can't dip these particular rails due to size and they are helixed to run up a very large radiused star system.

JJ

i'm learning as i go on this stuff. the other end has just said " well it says to passivate it....so passivate it" and i say " uh... okay boss! lol
Parent - - By spgtti (**) Date 01-23-2009 02:35
Avesta pickling paste is great stuff as long as you have a well ventilated area and somewhere to wash it off. We used it to passivate some surface corrosion on seam welds of a new tank in a biopharm plant. We taped off the welds w/ masking tape and brushed it on, let it sit and washed it off with a wet sponge. Just don't apply it without a respirator and wear rubber gloves, boots and Tyvecs. The owner was very picky about the appearance of their labs and was super happy with the results.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-31-2009 22:48
"Now wait just a cotton pickin minute here folks!!!" Foghorn - leghorn the Rooster cartoon of my youth. ;) ;) :)

First of all, the terms "pickling" and "passivation" are often confused, but are distinct processes. It's really important to be clear regarding the differences between these 2 surface treatment processes with respect in the use of their applications to stainless steels.

1.) THE PASSIVE LAYER FOUND IN STAINLESS STEELS:

Let's see if my attempt to give some sense of order in the way one would properly "treat" the surfaces of stainless steels in order to maintain, or re-introduce unique, self healing (to a point) surface protection system - called the passive layer which in stainless steels happens to occur naturally whenever a "clean" surface is exposed to an environment that can provide enough oxygen to form the chromium-rich oxide surface layer.

This occurs automatically and instantaneously, provided there is sufficient oxygen available at the of the steel. The passive layer does however increase in thickness for some time after it's initial formation. The transparent passive layer quickly reforms if damaged, provide there is sufficient oxygen in the surrounding air or aerated contact conditions. In this way stainless steels can create, maintain and keep the corrosion resisting passive surface condition, even where mechanical damage (e.g. scratching or machining) occurs, thus having a naturally built in self-repairing corrosion protection system.

2.) CHROMIUM:

The chromium in stainless steels is primarily responsible for the self passivation mechanism. In contrast to carbon or low alloy steels, stainless steels must have a minimum chromium content of 10.5%, (by weight) and a maximum of 1.2% carbon. This is the definition of stainless steels given in EN 10088-1. The corrosion resistance of these chromium steels can be enhanced with the addition of other alloying elements such as nickel, moybdenum, nitrogen, and Titanium, or columbium (Niobium). This provides a wide range of steels with corrosion resistances over a wide range of service conditions as well as enhancing other useful properties such as formability, strength and heat resistance.

Stainless steels cannot be considered corrosion resistant under all service conditions. Depending on the type (composition) of the steel there wil be certain conditions where the the passive state is broken down and prevented from reforming. Here the surface becomes "active" which results in corrosion. On stainless steels ,active conditions can occur in small areas deprived of oxygen, such as at mechanical joints, tight corners, or at incomplete, or poorly finished welds. The result can be "localised" forms of crevice or pitting corrosin attack.

3.) COMPARISON OF DESCALING, PICKLING, PASSIVATION AND CLEANING:

The terms "descaling, pickling, and "passivation" are often confused, but are distinct processes as applied to stainless steels. It's important to be clear about the differences between these surface treatment processes as applied to stainless steels.

4.) DESCALING:

Descaling is the removal of a thick visible oxide scale from the surface. This oxide is usually dark gray. This process is done routinely in the manufacturing steel mill before the steel is delivered. Mill descaling is usually a two stage process, one to mechanically loosen the mill scale, the second to lift the loosened scale clear from the metal surface. The exposed metal surface is then usually pickled to remove the metal layer that was immediately beneath the scale. This stage of the process should be considered as a separate one, however. Although some slight scaling may occur in the high temperature heat affected zone of welds or during high temperature heat treatment processes on fabricated stainless steel parts, further descaling operation are not usually necessary.

5.) PICKLING:

Pickling is the removal of a thin layer of metal from the surface of the stainless steel. Mixtures of nitric and hydrofluoric acids are usually used for pickling stainless... Pickling is the process used to remove weld heat tinted layers from the surface of stainless fabrications, where the steel's surface chromium level has been reduced.

6.) PASSIVATION:

Passivation usually occurs naturally on the surfaces of stainless steels, but ti may sometimes be necessary to assist the process with oxidising acid treatments. Unlike pickling, no metal is removed from the surface acid assisted passivation. The quality and thickness of the passive layer is however quickly developed during acid passivation treatments. There may be circumstances when the pickling and passivation processes occur sequentially (not simultaneously), during acid treatments involving nitric acid. Nitric acid alone will only passivate stainless steel surfaces. It is not an effective acid for pickling stainless steels.

7.) CLEANING:

Acid treatments alone cannot be relied upon to remove oil, grease or inorganic contaminants that can also prevent the passive layer forming properly. Combinations of degreasing, cleaning, pickling and passivation treatments may be necessary to fully prepare machined or fabricated stainless steel surfaces for their intended service conditions.

If stainless parts are contaminated with grease or oil, then a cleaning operation prior to acid treatment should be carried out.

There's more to add however, I'm in the mindspace of taking a mental breather in the form of a nap for just a bit so, until the next time, I'll add some more to this then. ;) ;) :)

Respectfully,
Henry   
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 02-01-2009 21:03
Hello Henry, thanks for putting this into very concise terms, as mountainman has already stated. Great information for anyone needing to use or consider requirements for working with stainless. I realize you're probably pretty busy, you'll have to include a little bio on how the teaching is going when you get some time. Hope your health continues to hold up and best regards, Allan
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-31-2009 23:09
You should proceed in this order: First clean make sure there's no use of carbon steel tools in either of these processes or any slight possibility of iron contamination because if not considered in these first steps, it will bite you back later on... Then degrease, then pickle either via tank immersion, spray-on or pickling gel or paste applied via brushing, then cleaned again with distilled water or electrochemical cleaning, and the acid residue disposed of properly, oh and make darn sure there's enough of an oxygen rich environment in which a new passive film can be formed without any impurities and if necessary, use a nitric or citric acid solution should repassivation need assistance, always handle with clean tools even with respect to lifting or moving the fabrications via the use of stainless or protected tools.

Hope this helps! ;) ;) :)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By mountainman (***) Date 02-01-2009 19:05
wow! yes, that helps very much! thank you Hank. very clear, quick, and concise. most of your posts are over my head, but you relayed this information perfectly for me to understand.(big grin).

thanks, and good to see you back here!
JJ
Up Topic Welding Industry / Welding Fundamentals / stainless passivation

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill