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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Who/what keeps track of CWI's
- - By Eric Carroll (**) Date 02-19-2009 02:03
A good size contractor that I do some work for keeps sending their hourly guys to some shop to get tested and certified. Most of the guys that go couldnt pass a real test to save their life. The inspector lets them run coupon after coupon till they get one that looks ok and send them home with some papers. One guy told me he took an " Arkansas Whole Hog" test and if he passes he will be certified to weld anything!! Ive run in to these types of places before and just wondered who keeps track of this? As far as the contractor is concerned they now have a certified welder and thats it. I read one guys papers that said he was qualified for all positions, and the super of the job knew all he tested for was flat. I guess for $ 750.00 you get certified no matter what at this place.
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 02-19-2009 15:08
Eric

Is a CWI involved is some crooked business here? 

Joe Kane
Parent - - By Eric Carroll (**) Date 02-19-2009 20:10
I wouldnt say crooked, but not straight foward. We all know how the term "certified welder" is used as some sort of magical do all term. Most of the time when we have to test for a job we get one chance and thats it. The place I am referring to seems to be "pay to pass" . The papers have all the inspectors numbers and aws info but its still all bs.- These guys can hardly run a flat pass, much less vert or overhead and the get papers saying that they are certified d.1 welders.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-23-2009 14:34
You didn't answer Joe's question.

Is a CWI involved and if so, is he/she signing the performance test record?

Can you get a copy of the test report with the CWI's signature?

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Eric Carroll (**) Date 02-24-2009 20:36
"I wouldnt say crooked, but not straight foward." That was my answer. I could try to get a copy of the papers, the problem is if I stir to much crap I could complain my way out of a good size 1099. Here is  tack from one of these "certified welders". Ive worked with inspectors who would let you get away with alot and with ones who didnt let anything go, but if you didnt pass the test you werent allowed to weld coupons all day until you got it right.
Attachment: IMG_01681 (0B)
Parent - - By swsweld (****) Date 02-25-2009 02:16 Edited 02-25-2009 12:25
That's a classic H.O.D.D. tack.

Hammered on dog du

Hopefully the tacker (term used very loosely) will not be the welder.

Can't see the top of the pic but what will the clip be holding up? Besides itself.

I've seen some similar scary stuff on parking deck precast structures.
Parent - - By Eric Carroll (**) Date 02-25-2009 03:34
That pic is 90 out- the long weld is vert. The guy who did that tack is also doing much of the welding. This structure is a monorail crane that hangs off of imbed plates in the pre-cast t-beam roof. 
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 02-25-2009 14:46
Eric,
  Improper joint preparation can lead to failures. I wish I knew where this "monorail crane that hangs off of imbed plates in the pre-cast t-beam roof" was going so that I can avoid that area like the plague. Scary, to say the least.

jrw159 
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-25-2009 15:05
We had a job go through our shop in the recent past that had some huge embedded plates in the Norfolk/Va Beach area and it had some large equipment hanging from these enormous over head embedded plates. I had to go inspect/review one of the sublet machine shops to make sure they were capable of performing and had equipement large enough to handle this work for us.

Now, I'm curious where this job is also.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-25-2009 03:38
I would hope the welder knew enough to grind out the "tack" weld before making the permanent weld. Then again, any welder that would leave that kind of mess probably doesn't have much else going for him. I suppose I should give him or her the benefit of doubt because I don't know what else has transpired on the project.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 02-25-2009 11:49
Do you have a WPS for that tack?  :-)
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-25-2009 12:30
Good point Byron.

AWS D1.1(08) paragraph 5.18.1(1) requires a WPS and qualified personnel.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-25-2009 12:29
The "tacker" would have stood a better chance of actually making a decent tack if he/she had ground off the paint before trying to burn through it.

BTW, Ugly welded coupons can still pass the visual/bend test, provided they still meet the inspection criteria....I can't always fail it for ugly alone. Do I think that this person may need a little more practice? Yup, but if it passes the inspection criteria, how can you make him/her retest(unless the contractor requests it)?

That tack however is ugly and doesn't pass some of the AWS D1.1(08) Table 6.1 criteria provided it will not be incorporated into the final weld(per paragrah 5.18.1(2)...based on Item 2 weld/base metal fusion(mainly IMO because they didn't grind off the paint per paragraph 5.15), (possibly Item 3 Crater cross section but the weld size wasn't given in this post), Item 4 weld profiles per Figure 5.4, (possibly Item 5, but the weld size is not given for that weld in this post).
Parent - - By Eric Carroll (**) Date 02-25-2009 23:13
I should have given more info- The tack pic is of a stainless imbed plate and a stainless angle. Here is another one. The welder who did these only took a test for carbon steel. One of the problems is this company is trying like hell to save money. I will have to have a talk with the inspector (job site guy, not cwi) so he knows what my guys did and what the Gc's guys did. As I go to jobsite after jobsite I find welding to be a very confusing subject for most construction managment. A shocking number of the supers I do work for have no idea how testing/certification is properly done. The super on this job calls himself a certified welder- he only has papers for flat and that was 10 years ago at one of these pay to pass type places.
Attachment: uglytack2.jpg (0B)
Parent - By BryonLewis (****) Date 02-25-2009 23:48
Oh no, is that an arc strike that I see!!! 
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-26-2009 01:52
Now this brings up a whole new set of problems. The code is no longer AWS D1.1 Structural Welding code - Steel, but AWS D1.6 for stainless.
Parent - By James Corbin (**) Date 02-25-2009 23:25
FYI - Administrative Procedures for Alleged Violations, read this.

http://files.aws.org/certification/docs/cert3449.pdf
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Who/what keeps track of CWI's

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