FCAW wire size limitation during qualificaion.

By cquirk77 Date 03-06-2009 03:28

I have a friend in the that during his carpentry apprenticeship he was required to take welding. They qualified SMAW and FCAW for pile drivers since apparently this falls into carpentry. The FCAW test he took was A5.20 .045 E71T-11, 3/8 plate A36 3G position. He passed the test and recieved his certification papers which were signed by not 1 but 4 CWIs before completing his apprenticeship school for the week. A week later he recieved a call from the one of the CWIs that tested him and she informed him that due to the fact that he completed the test with .045 wire his certification was no good (keep in mind their WPS was used in the test which stated .045 wire). She also told him that the reason this wire size is no good is .045 wire can only be used to test on a plate 5/16" or less and if he would like to retake the test he can do so with 5/64 wire. Has anyone ever heard of a wire size limitation for qualification of a welder? I have been a CWI since 2007 and I work with several others and we have never seen such a thing in the D1.1. Also these 4 CWIs qualified him in thickness for 1/8-1/2. I use D1.1 and the last time I checked the 3/8 plate qualifies 2T.

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 03-06-2009 04:26

E71T11 does have some thickness limitations based on diameter of filler metal but those limitations are not addressed in D1.1.

This self shielded flux core wire has elements in the flux that can be detrimental to a weld. The smaller the wire diameter, the more flux to weld ratio (I Think). Lincolns literature for thier NR-211 had specific thickness limits for different diameters.

However this would not affect the welders performance qualification test if he/she used a qualified WPS.

Table 4.12 does not list filler metal diameter or Electrode class as a variable for performance qualification.

If the procedure were prepared in accordance with Clause 3 of D1.1 the only limitation would be 1/2" thickness as indicated in table 3.1. No reference is made to diameter that I am aware of.

Wire diameter does NOT apply to performance qualification at all. The WPS may be in question but a WPS with E71T11 for 3/8" plate is not outside what is allowed by D1.1. If in production material greater than 1/2" must be used then a different wire would be needed however that different wire would not require requalification of the welder.

JUst my opinion. Find it odd that a consensus of 4 CWI's came up with this decision. Of course there may be other specification in place that are more binding than D1.1 and of course the possibility that I am missing something.

By hogan

Date 03-06-2009 14:43

I have to agree. This sounds more like a supplemental requirement.

By cquirk77 Date 03-18-2009 19:11

To update, I looked into wire manufacturer specs and they states the maximum thickness to be welded with this type and size of wire is 5/16". So it wasn't the welders skill that was in question, the CWI's involved wrote and incorrect procedure and would not tell the welders why their certs were no good. Apparently these are newer inspectors and are in the learning curve. I still learn something new everyday. Thanks for the help.

By Richard Cook (**)

Date 03-10-2009 13:05

I'm not alone, others too, deal with this kind of stuff.

I had this same issue come up, I challenged it, slapped the Code book on the table and told the Inspector to show me his justification. I was able to talk him back and convinced him it was a WPS concern not a welder qualification concern. You win some you lose some.

Read my post in techincal, and see what else you will come up against. (I hope I'm on base with my thoughts on that issue)

You are right in how you are seeing it, but now you have to play the politics of the industry, who has the most stroke.

By welder5354 (**)

Date 03-15-2009 04:54

This is a section from the CWB..W59-03; Weldded Steel Costruction code book.
Go to para.10.5.3.2 (b) and (c) on limitations of wire.
Does that make any sense as to what the other are referring too.

10.5.3 Procedures for Gas Metal Arc Welding with Single Electrodes

10.5.3.1
The maximum size of a fillet weld made in one pass in either the flat or the horizontal position, shall be
(a) 6 mm (1/4 in) for 0.9 mm (0.035 in) electrode wire diameter;
(b) 8 mm (5/16 in) for 1.1 & 1.2 mm (0.045 in) electrode wire diameter; and
(c) 10 mm (3/8 in) for:
(i) 1.3 mm (0.052 in) electrode wire diameter; and
(ii) 1.6 mm (0.063 in) electrode wire diameter.

10.5.3.2
The minimum diameter of electrode wire shall be
(a) 0.9 mm (0.035 in) for fillet welds;
(b) 0.9 mm (0.035 in) for groove welds where base metal thickness does not exceed 12 mm (½ in);
(c) 1.1 mm (0.045 in) for groove welds where base metal thickness does not exceed 25 mm (1 in); and
(d) 1.3 mm (0.052 in) for groove welds where base metal thickness exceeds 25 mm (1 in).