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Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / More Obama News to Keep You Guys on The Couch
- - By Jssec (**) Date 03-06-2009 16:43
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/feb/25/interior-department-withdraws-expanded-oil-shale-l/

WASHINGTON -- The Obama administration has put the brakes on expanded research and development leases for Colorado and Utah oil shale, reversing a decision issued in the final days of President George W. Bush's term.

Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar announced today that his department will instead offer a second round of research, development and demonstration leases for oil shale in Colorado and Utah. It will withdraw the previous administration's proposal for expanded RD&D leases.

Salazar told reporters in a teleconference he wanted to further analyze the impact and feasibility of commercial oil shale development in the West.

He called the Bush administration's decision "premature."

"Those who have fantasized that oil shale is the panacea for America's energy needs have been living in a fantasy land. ... No one at this point in time can quantify how we're going to get the carogen out of those rocks and what the associated costs are," Salazar said.

In the Senate, Salazar had pushed for limits in congressional legislation on tapping oil shale in his home state, Utah and Wyoming.

Salazar had worried that the development might hurt the landscape. He also voiced concern over how much water and electricity oil shale technology would consume.

Oil shale is a fine-grained sedimentary rock containing organic matter from which oil may be produced, either through heat or a chemical process.

The deposits under Colorado, Utah and Wyoming have about three times the proven reserves of Saudi Arabia, according to the Interior Department.
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 03-06-2009 17:00
sounds like something i read yesterday about canada going after fule in the same way, they can do it but we cant. didnt know canada was so much more advanced than us
MDK
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 03-06-2009 17:51
It'll become a big talking point again in the summer of 2012. Until then. We need to put on the brakes and consider it some more. Change We Don't Need Just Yet.
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 03-06-2009 19:03
It's just taking away public money for research into developing oil shale technologies. IF the oil companies want it that bad they can do the R&D with private funds, it's not like they aren't posting record profits, why do they need to dip into public money to increase their bottom line? Isn't that just about the exact opposite of capitalism?  Their could be complete justifications for the research though, such as research universities that develop codes and safety standards for the industry as a whole. It's hard to say without more information into the nature of the research.

so far oil shale cannot compete with conventional fields and will yield a barrel for around $70-95 depending on the quality of the kerogen and soil. The process is very dirty and creates a large amount of sedimentary byproduct.  Traditionally the technology starts with open pit or strip mining and has similar ramifications. Oil shale typicaly yields much less oil per tonne than competing technologies. Several countries use oil shale either directly for electrical generation or refinery into petroleum products. Estonia, China, Russia, Brazil, Canada and a few others all have oil shale production facilities although several more countries have shut down their experimental facilities. Estonia is almost completely powered by Oil shale electric generation and it has vast reserves of it. The proven reserves of oil shale far outstrip those of crude oil for the record

I think overall we'll see an increase in oil shale extraction both in the US and abroad as traditional extraction becomes harder and fuel prices increase.  However it's not a candy-coated rainbow. I would not want a facility anywhere near my town or in my backyard. It has a much bigger environmental impact than traditional drilling and even a bigger impact than traditional mining. I think it serves a need and can be a piece of our energy needs diet but it's not a very forward thinking technology.
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 03-06-2009 19:16
[deleted]
Parent - By kipman (***) Date 03-06-2009 21:25
Oil companies are companies just like any other, i.e. they must turn a profit or they will be forced out of business, they must satisfy their shareholders, employees, customers, etc.  And because of that they will act like any other company in any other industry or market - they will make decisions and take actions that will guarantee the best value for their stakeholders.  That's why any talk about oil and gas (whether it's research, production, access to certain areas, etc - the whole entire thing) needs to be part of a US national energy strategy.

If it costs more to extract US domestic oil and gas (for instance from oil sands/shale or from ultra-deepwater sources ) than it does to import it from other countries, what company that wants to stay in business would in its right mind lose money on extracting it?  On the other hand, if the US believes that it is strategically and/or politically important to increase domestic production then it may be in the public interest to fund research or reduce taxes (in order to offset some of the difference in the cost of extraction between domestic and foreign sources).  That would allow US oil companies to invest more money in exploration and production, which they would do because that is how they secure future profits.  Anybody who thinks an oil company will invest significant amounts of capital (above what they may view to be a reasonable research bet) in oil shale or oil sands at current crude prices is living in a dream world - that would be like one of us saying "Welding rates are down to less than half of what it takes to make a profit on those tough jobs - sounds like a good time to invest a whole bunch of money".
Unfortunately this is one of the causes of cyclical prices of crude and gas.  Investment in production capacity is low when prices are low, so when economic activity picks up there is not enough capacity for the demand and prices go very high.

Is it "wealth fare".  I imagine the idea of the US government funding energy research is viewed that way by many, but I believe it is much like funding for any other pure science research or for the space program - it pays off in the long run.
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 03-07-2009 06:29
   Doesn't the article say "Interior Department withdraws expanded oil shale leases" ? This is not public money funding the R&D, this is oil company money going to the Govt. in exchange for the right to try to develope this technology.

   I don't dispute the rest of Your post, it may not be economicly feasable presently, but the time will come when it is [probably] and at that point We will be kicking Our arses for not having figured out how to extract the stuff sooner.

   
Parent - - By FixaLinc (****) Date 03-07-2009 20:44
Contracts mean nothing now they been hauling out rigs and shutting down in Utah for a while now.  Cousin got laid off out there nothing going again there thanks to all the change by Mr. Big O and his commie rocket scientist cronnies !  How is that kind of change going to ever wean us off foreign oil ?  Makes no sense at all but all the smart people that voted for him got it figured out and their pockets lined with stimulus money now.  
Parent - - By Inspectorous (*) Date 03-08-2009 00:18
What will they do when they receive their last stimulus check. Guess they can just print more fake money, or sell us to another country. By then they will have sold/;pawned all their guns. Gun control was probably one of the 8000+ earmarks.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 03-08-2009 19:48
Yes. 8000 earmarks in one bill (yes thats EIGHT THOUSAND) certainly seems a good start in keeping your campaign promise to eliminate earmarks. Like balancing the budget with a 1.4 trillion dollar (and almost 250% increase) deficit projected after only the first couple weeks in office.  But give him time.  Right??  Holy crap!!!!
Not only is this S&%T NOT the 'Change we Need', it isn't even close the 'Change' we were promised. But we hoped. If its any kind of Change AT ALL, its worse. Maybe we need a series of debates where the voters can pat themselves on the back for looking concerned with the issues (yeah right-always got a chuckle when I'd see the concerned audience expressions we were treated to during those ridiculous dog and pony shows). Or perhaps yet another oversight czar to make it look like our Messiah is keeping an eye on things (like the watch dog watchin the thieves steal your plasma TV).
What we'll likely get is more fear and panic mongering telling us if we don't do more now its gonna be economic armeggeddon.
Or, what I saw this morning and damn near spit out my coffee, a show on successful dating during the recession. You gotta be kiddin me? This s*%t is becoming enculturated. Talk about the tail waggin the dog. (OK 3 doggy metaphors in one post-I like dogs)
So, in the end who's gonna worry about millions for pig odors (not a dog, not a metaphor-an earmark-there's gotta be a joke in there somehwere about a silk purse and such) when we're facing the catastrophe of the millenium so they say
It better be us because it sure the hail ain't our elected representatives or our new messiah. He's sure got some pretty words though. Maybe a few more pictures of the wife and kids swingin on the White House lawn will help (of course nobody noticed the perfect lighting with flash fill and the perfect timing-how spontaneous was that?), or maybe more 'make nice' talk with the Taliban (you suppose they'll notice he said there kickin our azz and that he also wants to negotiate-does anybody else see a problem with negotiating from a position of self professed weakness?-or sending more troops to have their azzes kicked (according to him mind you)while making nice talk-talk about mixed signals-is there a plan here because nobody seems capable of deciphering it-maybe that is the plan-while their kcikin our azzes we'll confuse them into submission).
I know what they need. A doggy!!
Oh, so many metaphors so little time.
Parent - - By michael kniolek (***) Date 03-08-2009 21:44
now this political infant wants to reach out to the talaban??????????????
more like stick out necks out so they can behead us.
Give him a chance still, or call BS on him now and save this country.
Parent - By michael kniolek (***) Date 03-08-2009 21:48
i can see it now we will reach ouyt to them, they will begin to gain trust get into our inner circle and gut us from the inside!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Parent - By swsweld (****) Date 03-09-2009 00:23 Edited 03-09-2009 15:30
js55,

>or maybe more 'make nice' talk with the Taliban (you suppose they'll notice he said there kickin our azz and that he also wants to negotiate-does anybody else see a problem with negotiating from a position of self professed weakness?-or sending more troops to have their azzes kicked (according to him mind you)while making nice talk-talk about mixed signals-is there a plan here because nobody seems capable of deciphering it-maybe that is the plan-while their kcikin our azzes we'll confuse them into submission).<


Yea, I feel the same way. When asked if we were winning the war in AF. he flat said NO!!! Next we are going to negotiate with them, the Taliban that is. Not just them but Iran and Syria too. He thinks if we don't call them terrorists and are nice to them they will be nice to us in return. Of course his defense will be he is only doing what Patraus did in Iraq building an alliance with the Sunnis against al-Qaida. I disagree with that argument.

Another angle to his "losing war comment" is that he will declare victory in six months and takes credit for it. We were losing the war when I took office. Now we have won.
Hail to the Chief.

I'm disgusted with the direction we are going. Radical change is here. Far left ideology will be passed through without much resistance and we will not be able to recover from the consequences quickly. Spending bill after spending bill mostly creates government jobs like the 25 police jobs in Ohio that he proudly and with photo ops. took credit for this week. Nationalize the banks, car industry, energy industry, health care etc.. and I'm sure it won't end there. Gun rights, 1st and 2nd amendment rights are in jeopardy. Rights of the unborn are non-existent and getting worse.
OK my weekly rant is over. But it is Monday tomorrow.

Doesn't matter what party in control I don't want the government to control everything. It will not end well.

You say;

>I know what they need. A doggy!! <


I hope that works, my daughter just got a Miniature Pomeranian.
[IMG]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn196/swsweld/100_0725.jpg[/IMG]

Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / More Obama News to Keep You Guys on The Couch

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