Qualification

Date 03-15-2009 22:24

There have been other discussions about this in the past. I, for one, prefer to push the "conflict of interest" phrases found in several places to the extent that, while more than likely tolerable, it is not the best. I use an outside independant tester to keep myself and my son's papers updated and new ones added as needed. This just eliminates the type of questions you are currently having.

If the person in question has very good records of the tests and has possibly (hopefully) kept the samples tested, then the only reason to question his qualifications is if you start recieving inferior product. At that time you could definitely ask for an independant re-test in order for him to continue with the work.

Do you have any contract clause that calls for any spot checks by an inspector? Could be of benefit.

As I remember, the majority of responses previously were in agreement that it is an acceptable, though not preferrable practise.

I'm sure others will chime in, and hopefully with more info.

Have a Great Day, Brent

By weldr61 (*)

Date 03-16-2009 01:10

Thanks for your input. I spoke to an engineer from AWS and they pretty much gave me the same answer "acceptable but not a preferred practice" thanks again for your post

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 03-16-2009 02:31

This would be a situation that would occur with a "One Man" operation doing work requiring qualification to ASME Sec IX. If he were the only person in his company, he would be the only one who could sign for his performance qualification test.

But what if he goes to a test lab and "PAYS" them to certify him. Has it become any more ethical?

Or even if a company needs a certified welder, no outside involvement is needed. Yet when an individual does it, there is a perception of it being less acceptable.

By weldr61 (*)

Date 03-16-2009 03:30

So, my interpretation of your post would be that you agree that it would be acceptable for a CWI to take a qualification test, do the physical testing and sign off on said paper work with signature and stamp or seal? Please don't mis-interpret my question as sarcastic I am neither for or against this concept I just want to know if this is a legitimate practice in the eyes of professionals such as yourself. Thank you for your input.

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 03-16-2009 11:31 Edited 03-16-2009 11:41

I have had serious difficulties interpreting what some of the words in the QC1 standard mean. In addition, I have never seen a case in which a welder signed his/her record of qualification.

As far as being Acceptable, D1.1 is silent. As far as QC1, it is less silent. There is a statement that says "that might be so considered" however that paragraph says

11.4.1 The SCWI, CWI, or CAWI shall avoid a conflict of interest with the employer or client and shall disclose any business association, or circumstance that might be so considered.

I have always used this paragraph when asked to inspect at a local fabricator that I had either worked for in the past or had performed work as a contractor for. In addition it only indicates all parties should be aware of the circumstance.

I could not at this point in time tell you that the practice would be unacceptable. Though it would be a non typical practice, it could happen as in the case with a One person organization.

Understand that the opinion I state are my own based upon my own ability to read and understand words written by others. I have actually considered this practice myself since I am a one person company. I do however intend to have another party perform the visual and destructive tests and document these on their paperwork and also sign the WPQ for Inspected By and Mechanical Testing By. I will still sign the bottom line under "I hearby certify ...". Under normal circumstances there is no need for signed documentation to be maintained for inspection by other parties however this would be a special case to avoid any perception of wrongdoing.

I believe that there are some individuals here that may have some better insight into this. Maybe a call to the Q&C depqartment would be in order.

By Ke1thk

Date 03-17-2009 13:18 Edited 03-17-2009 13:20

Let's say you have "some" parts to be welded. You want all welding personnel qualified to AWS D1.1, but no PQR or WPS. This tells me that all you want is the best quality parts at the lowest price, without paying for a PQR or WPS. I don't blame you.

I'd weld your parts in accordance with the applicable code. I wouldn't create a WPS. I understand that you want "budget" documentation.

Many CWI's are or were welders. That's me. I love to weld. A full-blown set of weld documents isn't cheap. I weld my own samples; send them out to a lab for nondestructive testing, to a destructive lab for their tests, and then create a series of documents. Next, I send my documents to your quality or welding engineer for evaluation. He can either accept or reject them. That costs money.

A CWI can certainly inspect his own welds, and qualify them. My employer paid for my CWI training to reduce his welding costs. I qualify welders, test parts, write welding documents, prepare for customer audits, and many other activates.

I think that you get what you pay for. Include in the quote the level of detail of the documents and tests that you require.

Good Luck,

Keith