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- - By TimGary (****) Date 03-17-2009 14:55
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29733519/
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 03-17-2009 14:59
Make that a double, Tim!  The entire world has gone upside down... reward the criminals and screw the rest of us...  And this is NOT a political statement... it's been going this way for years.... maybe begins with lawyers?
Parent - By uphill (***) Date 03-18-2009 17:38
Anyone else wonder what all of the smoke and mirrors is hiding from us? Those who scream foul the loudest(congress) got $96,000 for the old petty cash spending money,Yes? The goal of the new age control is just starting to wear down our freedom. Take away one thing at a time and make the masses dependent on Big Brother to repair all government regulation caused hardship in America?  Who cares who fails? If you made bad loans under government regulations, then the governing body that dictated who and why the loans must be made should bail those loans out. Then fire all of those in gov who made those changes.

Somebody else is always responsable. Someday the finger of blame will fall off from the frantic CYA going on. If I dont make my house payments I get asked by the sherrif to move.

There is a lot of underhanded crap infested bills coming up. There will be more. Hurry up and vote them all in before the next election.
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 03-17-2009 15:04
Finally something a Republican says that I can agree with.  :-)
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 03-17-2009 16:05
They need to suffer for the problems they caused us.
But again i say this could be used as a wepon in the big O administration for class warfare.
Thats why they should have gone bankrupt thats how it works.
We wouldnt be discussing it if they failed and were fired, then the bailout given after the Foxes left the chicken coop.
MDK
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 03-17-2009 16:14
We might consider this. There are several divisions to AIG. It was only one division that caused the problems. Should the executives from the other divisions that were run successfully (that actually kept this from happening sooner) be penalized for the failures of those in the problematic division?
Do we respond to one injustice with another? Is that what America is about?
Also, what if the executives that did their job right, the good ones, decide to tell AIG to shove it because they didn't receive the bonuses they were entitled to by contract law? Then we end up with a majority of bad execs running the company we are trying to support and possibly causing the very thing we are trying to avoid.
It may soothe our anger and we can smugly pat ourselves on the back for getting the bad guys, but it isn't smart. Anger is never conducive to good legislation.
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 03-17-2009 16:26
Thats what ive been saying to people some of these people did do a good job and deserve to be paid , like u said some depts made money ( good secure money) they should be paid.
BUT The group who lost all that cash and the risk managment team should all be on the chopping block.
To group all AIG people in one lump and say non of them get anything,in my opinon is wealth racisim.
I have been struggling with this and thats how i see it.
My question to BIG O is this  did you not see what happened with the first bailout? if you cared about it why did you give them the rope to hang themselves?
MDK
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 03-17-2009 17:36
[deleted]
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 03-17-2009 18:00
GOOD RIDANCE
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 03-17-2009 18:16
And apparantly Congress is looking to create a "special" tax for those mother F'ers.  That would put 100% tax on all bonuses received from bailedout companies.  OOOOHHH.  The plot thickens.  LOL

Edit:  I notice that I have been using quotation marks alot lately.  Oh nevermind.
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 03-17-2009 18:34
AGAIN I CAUTION NO CLASS WARFARE!
Parent - - By 357max (***) Date 03-17-2009 19:09
According to Rush L this morning. He quoted the democrats as having voted in an amendment to provide the retention money. And it was signed by Mr. O. Now they reverse their decisions. The plot thickens Sherlock
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 03-17-2009 19:45
You lost me at according to rush l
Parent - By 357max (***) Date 03-17-2009 20:14
The amendment spells out the retention payments how much and to whom.
Parent - - By swsweld (****) Date 03-18-2009 04:07 Edited 03-18-2009 04:13
There is more to this than meets the eye. If the gov/us owns 80% of AIG and they would be bankrupt (contracts null and void) without the two bailouts and the president did not want them to get the bonuses then WHY did they let them give them out. They knew in advance they planned to give out 165M to a company that lost 61B last quarter. Is Geithner, Dodd, Obama afraid of a lawsuit?

http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/industries/finance/dodd-cracks-aig---time/
This is very interesting, almost unbelievable. Look at the chart also. AIG has a dark blue tint to it. Look at the top two recipients of AIG contributions.

357max is right. In the last stimulus bill (you know the 1100 page bill that no one read over the weekend but the world would come to an end if it wasn't signed Monday) Chris Dodds amendment guarantees the bonuses contractually agreed to before February 11, 2009.
So a lot of this political outrage is for show IMO. They will use these clips in 2010 and 2012 for campaign purposes.

I don't like the idea of the gov. using taxes in this way (100% tax) to recover the bonuses. Who's next on their list?
Obama limits top management pay to match his. Now bonuses. Government control is increasing to alarming levels.

Don't get me wrong. I think AIG had no right to hand out bonuses (bonuses are for profitable companies)after losing 61B in one quarter. But the government is going to use this to restructure the financial system so a "tragedy like this" can never happen again.
Parent - By ctacker (****) Date 03-18-2009 04:42
I give you a 3 rating, for doing your homework! :)
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 03-18-2009 11:43
That 100% tax is illegal and specifically forbiden in the constitution. Charmin makes a better toilet paper than the constitution, but the powers in washington appear to prefer the grit of of the constitution over normal toilet paper.
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 03-18-2009 13:22
Not to be arguementative, yet, how is it unconstitutional?
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 03-18-2009 15:35
From article 1 of the constitution:

Section. 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

Section. 9. The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken

Section. 9. The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 03-18-2009 16:33
Not so much.  I still don't see it.

Sxteenth Amendment:
"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

Thats the ticket there.
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 03-18-2009 23:15
Your quote is effectively restating the same as mine. Bottom line is, it's unconstitutional to tax one specific group without taxing them all.
Parent - - By darren (***) Date 03-22-2009 06:06
would be interested in your opinion of these
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7886780711843120756
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc
i've just finished reading about the declaration of independence and the founding fathers of america.
some of the greatest men to have ever lived i am sure, things have sure gotten off course from that declaration.
darren
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 03-22-2009 16:25
The first thing I should say is, a lot of assertions were made in those links that I have not independently verified and it will take a lot of research to do so.
However; I will say that there are several points I have verified though they are a minority in regards to the volume of assertions made in that first video.

It's ugly, thats for sure, and no one party is independent of the issue. They are all the same in my book. Boil away the bull**** and they end up the same.
I see people online in various blogs and on various sights pointing fingers at one another, but the reality is, if such assertions as are made in that video are true,
the powers behind such a conspiracy would like nothing better than to foster that internal rift among the citizens of this and other countries.

A quote "PSYOP can support the mission by discrediting the insurgent forces to neutral groups"
This from  "US Special Forces counter-insurgency manual FM 31-20-3" Which caused a serious stir when it was leaked many moons ago.
That one quote describes ruby ridge, waco, and many other incidences over the last 20 years in that anyone with a desenting opinion against the "official" opinion of government and the mass media is either demonized, ostracized, mitigated, and in general put aside. This goes for all both parties.

It's this and not obamas political/religious/racial affiliations that bother me. It's the going for the jugular slamming of anyone with a differing opinion that really disturbs me.
again "PSYOP can suppot the mission by discrediting the insurgent forces to neutral groups".
Parent - By darren (***) Date 03-23-2009 02:33
i have done quite a bit of research into these type of topics and i find the evidence is overwhelming. i suggest to anyone who cares to look into it themselves and see what they make of the evidence. most people are so duped that they refuse to accept anything that is not what they see on tv. you've expressed many educated opinions on here so i am assuming you have done quite a bit of research yourself.
in my opinion,the aig thing is just to get people to focus on a small small portion of a problem and keep them from realizing the greater issue.
we live in interesting times to say the least.
fascism 101
first semester
first class
first lesson
misdirection of popular discontent.

Parent - By BryonLewis (****) Date 03-23-2009 17:59
I always wondered what ever happened to Mel Brooks!!! :-)
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 03-17-2009 20:40
Its there, there just ain't enough on the combatants.  :-)
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 03-18-2009 13:50
I hoped this wouldn't become political but alas, how could it not?

The AIG "bailout" was initiated under the Bush era... with the bonuses spelled out in AIG documents.  Obama should have "fixed" those mistakes before pushing through this massive undertaking.

I applaude what GW Bush said in response: "he owes it to Obama to keep silent" and further, he loves America more than politics.  I think, as American's we should all HOPE this mess works for the better, regardless of party lines... although it looks like deep, deep kaka at the moment. 

As a Democrat, I said before the election and I'll hold firm, if the Democrats botch this trip up, with the majorities in place, there is nowhere to shift the blame.
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 03-18-2009 13:59
never waste a crissis, this is being used for showboating by O
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 03-18-2009 14:20
I don't think its showboating.  There is a lot going on that needs to be attended to.  He is trying to get us out of the 8 year old swamp we're bogged down in. 
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 03-18-2009 17:24
Bryon,
There is actually very little to be attended to. Its a business cycle(8 year swamp-good lord). Just like the downturns towards the end of Bush 1 and Clinton. And all the panic mongering in the world by the current administration can't change that. Too bad he doesn't listen to economists outside of his own administration yes men. And his panic mongering got so bad his political advisors told him to back off and positive it up a bit, while the FDIC started speaking of economic armeggeddon in his stead.
Granted the Bush administration started the bailout bulls%$t, of which I and most other conservatives disagreed vehemently, but at least with Bush it wasn't just a thinly veiled excuse for a Socialist agenda. Unless you think research into pig stink is critical to the ailing economy (however you do have to hire sniffers). And of course Obama made Bush's bailout look like pocket change.
Still waiting to hear the left disagree vehemently with their Savior. They can't even seem to bring themselves to disagree over troop increases in Afghanistan even though during the campaign they were wailing over the issue.
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 03-18-2009 18:03
Maybe it's just me, but I can not remember you posting anything about bush and the bailout (pre Obama). Can you give a link to that thread?
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 03-19-2009 12:21
hogan,
Not really sure the point of asking me to do the search. Seems a bit of a personal approach. It avoids the arguments and addresses the sincerity of my opinions. At least as I interpret the request.
However, I will say this, I don't remember the timing.  I suppose you'll have to do your own research.
I do however remember stating my opposition to not only Bush's bail out, but Bush's immigration policy and perhaps a couple other, not so visible, policies of which I was not enamoured, to say the least.
And if memory serves, during the campaign as McCain drifted towards more acceptance of the bailout I expressed concern there as well.
But I would think that the history of my posts would more than verify that I don't change my opinion based upon which President supports a policy, if thats what your implying. Especially considering that I was once a Dem, then a Rep, now neither.
Parent - - By uphill (***) Date 03-18-2009 21:04
The whole 8 year old swamp is about 3 years old now, ever since who took over the senate? I do believe that was about the time the record high stock market came a sliding down to almost repairable crisis numbers.
Not trying to put blame on anyone either cause we are all at fault. The same gonads that caused this are still in office no? They are now the big dogs in the kennel yes?

I think we need to take a little time and rethink what being an American really means.

1. Put lead back into paint and pencils because people used to be smart enough to see through all of this crap. (ok maybe not this one)
2. Everyone including all politicions should make the same ammount of income reguardless of worth. What makes a ball player worth 100,000 times more than a welder?
3. Everyone including politicions should get the same retirement (politicions on a actual working hours scale.)
4. Free passage to anyone who wont work = to a third or fourth world country of our choice.( and take care of those who cant )
5. Drop all of the amnesty bill and make it illegal to re-introduce. You want to become a legal USA citizen apply and learn english.
6. Patrol all USA borders with loaded functioning weapons. Amnesty to any law enforcement having to shoot (to kill) anyone resisting arrest.
7. Take the America First to heart.
8. Make the official legal language English. No exceptions.

Share the wealth is BS  Share the work instead.

The war on "W" is done so is the one on peanut , ghore and thumblike. Cant we all just get a ?????????
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 03-18-2009 21:12
We are sharing the work.....with Asia.  85% Asia 10% USA 5% others.
Parent - By uphill (***) Date 03-18-2009 23:13
Here is some long winded explanation on the trade imbalance if you dont mind some . It doesnt break down the overall death rate of workers though.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Business/HD01Cb05.html
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 03-19-2009 14:24
peelosie said immigrents are true patroits and our immigration policies are unamerican,
Whats that BS
Time to clean house
MDK
Parent - By Jssec (**) Date 03-18-2009 23:20
Agree!! The people that received these bonuses work for AIG Insurance Division which is the most profitable division of AIG and earned the bonus according to the employment contracts signed by AIG. The Derivatives Division which was just fake money is the division that lost all the AIG money as the house fell the Insurance Division went with it. Obama, Geithner and Congress knew of the bonuses to be paid before they gave the money away. Chris Dodd inserted a special provision to allow for the bonuses to be paid because AIG headquarters is in his home state of Connecticut and gets 100's of thousands in campaign cash from AIG and its corporate heads. Obama and his gang know the truth but spin it to get as much Liberalism as they can.
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 03-18-2009 14:19
Jon,
I always enjoy your posts.  They are well written and to the point.  I hope one day I can be as decisive as you seem to be politically without my temper and emotions over shadowing my comments. 

Maybe before the next election cycle I'll go to Kazakhstan too!  I might have to anyway to score a job!! :-)

Thanks
Parent - - By arrowside (**) Date 03-18-2009 18:44
Scumbag Hussein hasn't lived up to one campaign promise yet. The disarming of America has already begun. They want to reserrect the 1994 assault weapons ban, plus they have added to it extensively. They are also attacking ammo sales by proposing extensive taxes. Universal healthcare? Pure socialism. Barry is also trying to recind the bill that was passed allowing pilots to carry side arms. Why? He doesn't want the pilots to be able to defend themselves against his muslim brothers the next time they attempt a highjack? The ONLY reason to not address illegal immigration, and to go even further, give the rat bastards amnesty, is to garner their votes, thus perpetuating his socialist agendas. The libs are the enemy, and they are on their way to destroying the America we knew in the past. We will either lose America completely, or we will soon be killing each other via another civil war.

      One last little item- Did any of you hear about how Barry Hussein has attacked Veterans medical benefits? Look into it. He's a pig. He'll give free medical to illegal immigrants, and then expect our country's veterans to pay for the right to have been wounded protecting our freedom!!!!!!!P-I-G.
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 03-18-2009 20:08
I never knew that we were enemies. I'll have to keep an eye out for you! Don't get to paranoid, I'm not coming after you. Additionally I feel you are beyond paranoid if you think that YOUR PRESIDENT is working with muslims so they can better hijack airplanes. Next thing you know he will be trying to take away our soap. That I will not stand for. If it come down to that I'll have to join up with you.
Parent - By Jssec (**) Date 03-18-2009 23:29
On 9-10-2001 NO one ever thought muslim brothers would fly 4 fully loaded commercial jets into the World Trade Center, Pentagon and ground in Shanksville, PA. I guess you did not read the article yesterday about the soaps and shampoos? http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-baby-cancermar13,0,7771528.story?track=rss
Parent - - By Jssec (**) Date 03-19-2009 01:36
Who ever thought Obama would release terrorist captured on the battlefield in the USA?

"Holder, who was chosen by President Barack Obama"

"Some of the Guantanamo Bay prisoners could be released into the United States while others could be put on trial in the American court system, Attorney General Eric Holder said on Wednesday"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090318/us_nm/us_guantanamo_holder
Parent - By swsweld (****) Date 03-19-2009 03:19
I'm sure that they will be model citizens once released into society. Perhaps an omnibus or stimulus bill should be passed to help the transition for the terro- can't say that, enemy comba, can't say that now either, how about misunderstood organizers. Yea we can call them that. That won't offend anybody. For all we know there may be an earmark in the bill for the misunderstood organizers already, since nobody has read it all.

GITMO's best; coming to a town near you.
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 03-19-2009 13:40
Jssec,
As far as no one knowing that terrorist would fly planes into the WTC, I can agree. But it's not like there were not signs. How about the first WTC bombing? What about the boomings in  Kenya and Tanzania? How about the attack on the Cole? Something was expected. Did we think that these things would just stop on there own? Al-Qaeda did not just appear, not did there philosophy on the western world.

I'm not sure if you had heard this one, but it appears that detainees that were released under bush have been busy( who would have thought? ). Some have gone back to the Taliban.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gepueqQ9a2V5zxXES7DoGnVhSFHwD96REJ1G0

Some have started leading al-Qaeda in Yemen.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/world/middleeast/23yemen.html
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 03-19-2009 14:04
Exactly!!!  I did read who they want to release in the States are 17 Uighurs.  Apparantly they are Chinese muslims.  That is a novel idea indeed.  Chinese muslims, WTF.  Those cats would stick out like a sore thumb.  I think those are the only ones that were supposed to be released here.  Others would go to prisons here and on to court.  But the Chinese guys have been cleared and are just sitting in Guantanamo for lack of any place for them to go.  China has oppressed them so they don't want to be sent there.

If I was in Gitmo I damn sure wouldn't want sent back home.  I would stay in Cuba, its far nicer weather than Afghanistan.  :-)
Parent - By Jssec (**) Date 03-19-2009 17:03
And the scumbag lawyers will be lined up at the boat ramp to welcome the gitmo terrorists onto American soil so they can represent them in US Courts to get them out on US streets we will pay for it ALL.
Parent - - By Jssec (**) Date 03-19-2009 17:12
Well aware they are released and returned to terrorist activities more proof that we keep what we got in gitmo.
Janet Reno and Bill ignored it all, mastermind of the USS Cole bombing Jamal al-Badawi was just released from prison.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2007/10/uss_cole_bomber_released_from.html
Even more reason we don't need liberal judges and scum bag lawyers with access to these idiots.
Obama thinks if we just talk to them they will disappear.
Parent - - By hogan (****) Date 03-19-2009 18:02
What fools we have been. I'm sure everyone here will agree with you that we need no more judges or lawyers. As a matter of fact why don't we just throw out the whole judicial system! after all it is they who are responsible for this.
OK so let me get this straight. You complain that your president is releasing gitmo detainees. So I post a few articles that suggest your previous president has been involved in the same activities. ( although this was only after that pesky judicial system forced him to do so ) To this you respond be stating that somehow it was Reno and Bill who let this happen??
I'm still trying to understand your last remark. "Obama thinks if we just talk to them they will disappear". I have no problem accepting this IF you can provide some corroboration. How about a link or something. Something where he states this or in some way supports this line. Personally I think that you have made this up, or you are just repeating what you have heard. Nothing personal.
Parent - - By Jssec (**) Date 03-19-2009 20:58
Obama: Talk With Taliban Moderates http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/07/politics/main4851754.shtml?source=RSSattr=Politics_4851754
How about Hamas? US officials to Obama: Talk to Hamas http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1236764182196&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
Wasn't that hard you could have looked this one up
Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / Here's a stand on AIG executives I support...
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