Welder qual w/ PQR Question

Date 03-19-2009 20:48

Rickc,
See AWS D1.1 - 4.18.3 A welder or welding operator may also be qualified by welding a satisfactory WPS qualification test plate, pipe or tubing that meets the requirements of 4.8 The welder or welding operator is thereby qualified in conformance with 4.8.1 and 4.8.2

jrw159 :-)

By rickc

Date 03-19-2009 21:14

Ah, thank goodness. I don't know how I missed that.
Thank you!!!!!

By jrw159

Date 03-19-2009 23:22

Anytime Rickc, glad I could help.

jrw159

By Zeke

Date 03-24-2009 22:53

jrw,
Maybe a dumb question, but I am just trying to learn something. If you qualify the welder through the wps, and the essential variables for the wps are in table 4.6, such as a change in the brand of electrode you are using requires requalification. Is the welder restricted to those essential variables in table 4.6? We have some old welder qualifications that specify what brand they used. Not sure if that has any bite as to what brand of electrode these welders are qualified to use.

By jrw159

Date 03-24-2009 23:25

Zeke,
Not a dumb question at all. :-) It would be my interpretation that yes it would, but in kind of a round about way, so to speak. The WPS lists brand of electrode (not something I like to do) I usually just referance classification of electrode and not pin myself down to brand. If brand is listed then it is an essential variable which would, if changed, require requalification.
So, yes the welder is restricted to the essential variables, but IMHO, brand can be left out to eliminate it as an essentiale variable. I am sure there are instances when this is not possible, but I have yet to run across them. IMHO the classification is more important than the brand.

In your case, I would requalify the procedures just as they are and eliminate calling out the "brand" of electrode and just stick to the classification. This way, as long as you stick to the same classification, you have not changed an essential variable.

jrw159

By Zeke

Date 03-25-2009 02:45

Thanks.

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 03-25-2009 03:19

Zeke / jrw159,
I have to be careful as I only have the 2004 edition but the Sections quoted don't seem to be right.
You are talking about welder qualification essential variables - Table 4.11. Brand name is not an essential variable.
Table 4.6 is for PQRs that require impact testing. Change in brand name is an essential variable.
Table 4.5 is for PQRs that do not require impact testing. Change in brand name is not an essential variable.

IMHO your welder quals are fine to use with a different brand of electrode ( as long as you are following a qualified WPS)
Hope that helps,
Cheers,
Shane

By 803056

Date 03-26-2009 14:04 Edited 03-27-2009 02:41

I agree with Shane.

If the WPS lists the brandname of a specific electrode, it is still a nonessential variable for work that does not require notch toughness per D1.1. The WPS can be revised to drop the brandname or change the brandname. If the brandname is listed, the welder has to use it for production. He does not have to requalify by testing if the WPS is revised or he welds using a different WPS as long as the F number of the "new" electrode is covered by his/her initial performance test. In other words, if the welder used E7018 for the performance test, he/she is qualified for F1, F2, F3, or F4. The welder can use any electrode provided the new WPS lists one of the covered electrodes falling into one of the F number groups for which the welder is qualified.

For example; The welder qualifies with an E6010 covered electrode, it is an F3 electrode, it qualifies the welder for any F1, F2, or F3 electrode. If the WPS lists ACME Super Low-Hi E7024, the welder is qualified to use it because it is a F1 electrode. If the WPS is revised and drops the brandname and simply lists E7024 the welder is still qualified to use any F1, F2, or F3 electrode. However, the welder is not qualified for E7018 because it is an F4.

As a recap; just because a welding variable is listed on the WPS, it doesn't mean that variable becomes an essential variable. A change to an essential variable means the WPS and/or welder has to be requalified. In this case, except for welds meeting notch toughness requirements, the brandname of the covered electrode is a nonessential variable meaning the WPS can be revised to include a different brandname or drop it all together. No additional testing is required.

Best regards - Al

By Kix