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Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / Lawsuits for Global Warming
- - By js55 (*****) Date 04-13-2009 16:14
Oh, you gotta love this one. Our new Congress is fixin to pass a bill that would allow individuals to litigate in civil court against companies, and the government, for damages due to Global Warming.
Aside from fact that this will most likely wreak havoc on our court system. I think maybe I have mixed feelings on this one, though its a risk. If the Global Warmiacs can't prove Global Warming by a preponderance of the evidence (the criteria in civil law) they will be forced to shut the hell up. Though who's going to decide preponderance?
This insanity in our new congress is like wipin your azz with a hoola hoop. There just ain't no end to it.

Oh, and PS: Guess who gets to pay for it all????  Yup.
Parent - By jon20013 (*****) Date 04-14-2009 09:40
Personally, I think America would do very well to shred ALL of it's laws and start over using the Constitution as guide.  What we REALLY need is a new standard for the f*cked up attorneys who are spearheading all this crap!!!  Can you say disbarment for frivilous lawsuits? :-)
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 04-14-2009 12:17
Jeff,

I can't believe you would disparage the global warming crowd in such a manner. Why, if they didn't have so many people holding up the tree's we'd all be dead by now. Let us not forget the friendly lawyers. Why without their constant vigilance, those heartless corporations might impose common sense among the people. After all, how are we to know the coffee is to hot to hold in our laps, and who's going to chase our ambulances when our own stupidity forces us to run off a road into those death trap pools of water evil people build in their backyard?

Don't you know Uncle Sam only means the best for us all, except maybe for those people who work hard, but they are victims of their own stupidity? Why work when the government pays for everything?
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 04-14-2009 13:25
jon,
Never let it be said that the attorney's in Congress would pass any legislation limiting the income capacities of attorney's in court. They may themselves be there some day.
Then again, given our seeming reluctance to toss the bums out, maybe not.
Always liked the slogan "re-elect nobody".
Wasn't that yours Gerald?
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 04-14-2009 14:34
This one?
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 04-14-2009 15:47
Gerald,
Global Warmiacs, of which I know a few, are some of the best, intelligent, and considerate people I know. But on this they just have a blind spot. Show them a few pictures of swimming polar bears and they turn to cream pie. Which reminds me, now I know it ain't their natural habitat to be sure, and not ideal, but anybody ever seen iceburgs in a zoo. And yet it seems to me the bears do quite well. I just have difficulty believing bears gotta have ice. If memory serves they're in the LA zoo. There may be volcanos in LA in the minds of movie makers, but there ain't no iceburgs. Not to mention that bears are found as far south as say, James Bay, where they can be quite a nuisance. Are you telling me the pole (which is much farther to the north) has warmed up to a average temp warmer than that latitude? Its not like the arctic is all of a sudden the Sahara.
Also, anybody see the polar bears in that recent incident about the lady falling into the bear habitat? Weren't a lot of parkas being worn that day. And yet the bears were fine. Maybe these arguments are too simple. But then again maybe they're just plain common sense.
Parent - By norcalwelder (**) Date 04-14-2009 16:52
Heres a article I found recently...its a pretty good read.

Global Warming: Why Can't the Mainstream Press Get Even Basic Facts Right?


DATE: March 22, 2004

BACKGROUND: The Associated Press ran a global warming story1 this past weekend that makes the following statements:

"Carbon dioxide, the gas largely blamed for global warming, has reached record-high levels in the atmosphere after growing at an accelerated pace in the past year..."

"Carbon dioxide, mostly from burning of coal, gasoline and other fossil fuels, traps heat that otherwise would radiate into space."

"Global temperatures increased by about 1 degree Fahrenheit (0.6 degrees Celsius) during the 20th century, and international panels of scientists sponsored by world governments have concluded that most of the warming probably was due to greenhouse gases."

TEN SECOND RESPONSE: How many scandals does the mainstream press need before it starts routinely running stories through fact-checkers?

THIRTY SECOND RESPONSE: Faulty "news" stories like this one, which mislead people all over the world, are one of many alarmist global warming reports by the news media that do not reflect a consensus of scientists. What is more alarming than what scientists genuinely know about global warming is that a media outlet as influential as the AP would run a wire story this faulty, and that so many news editors would be gullible enough to run it.

DISCUSSION: A brief refutation:

Quote 1: The AP said: "Carbon dioxide, the gas largely blamed for global warming, has reached record-high levels in the atmosphere after growing at an accelerated pace in the past year..."

Facts: Carbon dioxide is not the major greenhouse gas (water vapor is).2

Carbon dioxide accounts for less than ten percent of the greenhouse effect, as carbon dioxide's ability to absorb heat is quite limited.3

Only about 0.03 percent of the Earth's atmosphere consists of carbon dioxide (nitrogen, oxygen, and argon constitute about 78 percent, 20 percent, and 0.93 percent of the atmosphere, respectively).4

The sun, not a gas, is primarily to "blame" for global warming -- and plays a very key role in global temperature variations as well.

Quote 2: The AP said: "Carbon dioxide, mostly from burning of coal, gasoline and other fossil fuels, traps heat that otherwise would radiate into space."

Fact: Most of the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere does not come from the burning of fossil fuels. Only about 14 percent of it does.5

Quote 3: The AP said: "Global temperatures increased by about 1 degree Fahrenheit (0.6 degrees Celsius) during the 20th century, and international panels of scientists sponsored by world governments have concluded that most of the warming probably was due to greenhouse gases."

Facts: Most of 20th Century global warming occurred in the first few decades of that century,6 before the widespread burning of fossil fuels (and before 82 percent of the increase in atmospheric CO2 observed in the 20th Century7).

The Earth does not have "world governments." It doesn't even have even one, as the United Nations is not a government, but an association of nations.

If the AP is referring to the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the AP should become aware that the IPCC report itself (the part written by scientists) reached no consensus on climate change. What did reach a conclusion was an IPCC "summary for policymakers" prepared by political appointees.8 Most reporters quote only the summary, being either too lazy or too undereducated to understand the actual report. This does not explain, however, why reporters don't more frequently interview scientists who helped prepare it -- scientists such as IPCC participant Dr. Richard Lindzen of MIT, who says the IPCC report is typically "presented as a consensus that involves hundreds, perhaps thousands, of scientists... and none of them was asked if they agreed with anything in the report except for the one or two pages they worked on." Lindzen also draws a sharp distinction between the scientists' document and its politicized summary: "the document itself is informative; the summary is not."9

FOR MORE INFORMATION:

Associated Press, "CO2 Buildup Accelerating in Atmosphere," as run by USA Today on March 21, 2004 at http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/2004-03-21-co2-buildup_x.htm

"Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide," Oregon Institute of Science and Health, 2001, at http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p36.htm

"There Has Been No Global Warming for the Past 70 Years," The Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change at http://www.co2science.org/edit/v3_edit/v3n13edit.htm

John Carlisle, "Kyoto Cover-up: TV News Gives One-Sided View on Global Warming," National Center for Public Policy Research National Policy Analysis #337, May 2001, http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA337.html

John Carlisle, "Cooling Off on Global Warming," National Center for Public Policy Research National Policy Analysis #284, April 2000, http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA284.html

John Carlisle, "Sun to Blame for Global Warming," National Center for Public Policy Research National Policy Analysis #203, June 1998, available at http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA203.html

by Amy Ridenour

Contact the author at: 202-543-4110 or aridenour@nationalcenter.org
The National Center for Public Policy Research
501 Capitol Court, N.E.
Washington, D.C. 20002

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Footnotes:

(1) Charles J. Hanley, "CO2 Buildup Accelerating in Atmosphere," Associated Press, available on various websites, including http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/2004-03-21-co2-buildup_x.htm, http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/3/21/170709.shtml, http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/8241534.htm, http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/0304/21climateside.html, and many, many others (note: the headline used on the story varies).

(2) See "The Greenhouse Effect and Greenhouse Gases: An Overview," Energy Information Administration, U.S. Department of Energy (available at http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/pubs_html/attf94_v2/chap2.html) for a good summary of this issue understandable to the layman.

(3) Gerald Marsh, "Climate Change Science? National Academy of Sciences Global Warming Report Fails to Live Up to Its Billing," National Center for Public Policy Research National Policy Analysis #349, August 2001, at http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA349.html.

(4) Edward Klappenbach, "Examining the Carbon Dioxide in Our Atmosphere," About.com, downloaded from http://weather.about.com/cs/atmosphere/a/aa062003a.htm?terms=carbon+dioxide on March 21, 2004. Klappenbach gives the CO2 figure as .033 percent. Note: The Associated Press article being critiqued in this Ten Second Response alludes to an increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations as meaured at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Mauna Loa Observatory in Hawaii. The average annual percentage of CO2 in the atmosphere determined by researchers measuring there for 2002 was .0373 percent. A chart showing average annual CO2 concentrations as measured at the Mauna Loa Observatory from 1958-2002 is available at http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/ftp/maunaloa-co2/maunaloa.co2 as of March 22, 2004.

(5) "Frequently Asked Global Change Question: What percentage of the CO2 in the atmosphere has been produced by human beings through the burning of fossil fuels?," Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, March 2004, available at http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/pns/faq.html as of March 21, 2004.

(6) This is based on a review of global satellite and balloon temperature measurements and high-quality U.S.-based surface temperature station measurements. For additional details understandable to laymen, we recommend the short document "There Has Been No Global Warming for the Past 70 Years," published by The Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change and available online at http://www.co2science.org/edit/v3_edit/v3n13edit.htm as of March 22, 2004.

(7) "Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide," Oregon Institute of Science and Health, 2001, http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p36.htm.

(8) Richard S. Lindzen, PhD., "Scientists' Report Doesn't Support the Kyoto Treaty," Wall Street Journal, June 11 2001 (a copy of this article is available unofficially online at http://www.enerne.dk/lindzen_i_wall_st__j_.htm). Dr. Lindzen, who is a professor of meteorology at MIT, participated -- as a scientist -- in the preparation of the IPCC report cited above and also was a member of the National Academy of Sciences panel on climate change that summarized the IPCC report for the U.S. government.

(9) Paul Georgia, "IPCC Report Criticized by One of Its Lead Authors," Environment News, Heartland Institute, June 2001, available at http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=1069.
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 04-15-2009 12:08
I I disagree with "best, intelligent" part of that.
"
From Mirriam Webster:
Main Entry: in*tel*li*gence 

Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin intelligentia, from intelligent-, intelligens intelligent
Date: 14th century
1 a (1): the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : reason ; also : the skilled use of reason (2): the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria (as tests) Christian Science : the basic eternal quality of divine Mind c: mental acuteness : shrewdness
2 a: an intelligent entity ; especially : angel b: intelligent minds or mind <cosmic intelligence>
3: the act of understanding : comprehension
4 a: information, news b: information concerning an enemy or possible enemy or an area ; also : an agency engaged in obtaining such information
5: the ability to perform computer functions"

So lets apply a logic test to those definitions;

Does definition 1 apply?
Part 1 of 1a; Given that any statement that contradicts the politically correct statements agreeing with global warming is ignored, and or disparaged as ignorant, the failure of the global warming crowd to "learn or understand" and or "deal with new or trying situations" without resorting to "it just is" justification, eliminates this possible definition
Part 2 of 1a; The words "objective criteria" automatically throw out this explanation. I am willing to accept objective data, but only when it is "objective" and not laced with assumptions, and backed by "studies" which were assuming global warming as fact, rather than defining objectively gathered conditions. I can prove the hypothesis that the sky is not actually blue using the methodologies used to "prove" global warming.
Part 2a does not apply in this context.
Part 3a in order to understand and comprehend what are the actual conditions, it would have to be approached in an objective manner. Given that global warming or lack there of is not being approached in an object manner, part 3 does not apply either.
Parts 4 and 5 do not apply.

Maybe there is, maybe there isn't anything to global warming. Maybe it's just a natural cycle of the earth, maybe we are killing the earth. The only way we will know the truth is if an objective approach is taken, without preconception laced studies, and closed minds.
Whatever the case, I patently refuse to buy into anything the U.S. government says, just for the sole reason they said it, especially when I've personally recorded Government agencies "altering" Data to support the view. 0 Celsius is 0 Celsius, and to erase and punch in 5 C just because you don't like what it's saying is wrong.
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 04-14-2009 18:08
Well when the tree huggers got involved in stopping the burning of the rainforest they fixed it ............................right.......................um...................whats that smoke?
Parent - By hogan (****) Date 04-14-2009 18:51
What amazes me is that over 75% of the oxygen put into the atmosphere, and 75% of the CO2 taken out happens in the ocean. The only ramification of cutting down the rain forest is loss of species. Not lack of CO2 removal, not added O2 to the atmosphere.
Parent - By bozaktwo1 (***) Date 04-14-2009 17:02
Global warming.  Coming to a courtroom near you.

Wonderful.

And the folks in Congress sit around wondering why We, the People are so cranky all the time.  Guess maybe they'll be finding out in about 2 years.
Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / Lawsuits for Global Warming

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