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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Copper Contamination - Aluminum Welding
- - By Zeek (**) Date 06-05-2009 20:25
We TIG weld the majority of the aluminum products we make.  A question came up not too long ago about copper contamination.  Some foreign copper material became embedded into the surface of some 6061 aluminum from tooling.  What is the mechanism behind the detrimental effects that copper has on aluminum?  I read somewhere that it has to do with liquid metal embrittlement, but I'm not quite clear on how copper has an influence on that.  Any thoughts?

Thanks.
Parent - By tazmannusa (**) Date 06-05-2009 21:56
From what I know about aluminum in boats copper is a big no no, electrolises, in a damp wet enviroment will eat the aluminum in a hurry. same with copper and steel.
Tom
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 06-06-2009 02:23
Probably grain boundry issues, but some aluminum alloys do contain a little copper.
Parent - - By Mwccwi (***) Date 07-11-2009 21:27
I Know I,m joining late, this interests me. 
If Copper Contamination is a issue then why does D1.2 allow copper as TM -removable backing and is this the reason for limiting the maximun root opening to 1/32" when using Copper as TM?
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-12-2009 03:00 Edited 07-12-2009 12:19
Aluminum doesn't tolerate a high percentage of copper because the copper has limited solubility in aluminum. When copper is used as an alloying constituent, the alloy is heated to a high temperature to allow the copper to go into solution with the aluminum. The alloy is then quenched to form a supersaturated solution. The quenched alloy is then aged to allow the copper atoms to diffuse and form "clumps" within the atomic lattice thus stressing/straining the surrounding lattice thereby strengthening the structure. Over aging, i.e., holding at temperature for an extended time or at too high a temperature, will allow the copper to precipitate to the grain boundaries thereby weakening the alloy by allowing excess copper to come out of solution (good bye clumps, good bye stressed/strain lattice). 

I assume any excess copper will simply form intermetallic compounds much like excess carbon in iron. The intermetallic compounds are brittle and undesirable for most applications.

As for the copper backing; the copper backing usually has a groove machined into it to help form the root surface when single sided CJP welds are made. It is important to ensure the arc does not impinge on the backing (thus melting the copper), hence the limitation on the root opening of the aluminum joint. Once again, the concern is the formation of intermetallic compounds of aluminum and copper.

Anyway, that's my best take on the subject.

Best regards - Al 
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 07-13-2009 13:45
It is in my opinion, in this case, as tazmannusa stated, the problem of an electrolytic cell since we are talking about, I assume, manufacturing contamination.
If it were weldment related, since the contaminating Cu can find its way into weldments, the Cu forms Theta phase with Al to provide the strengthening intermetallic for generally 2000 Series Al alloys. Too much Theta phase and the alloy becomes more and more difficult to weld, even to the point, as Al said, Cu insolubility.
Also, I would think that the existence of other alloying elements, Mg, for example, since I do not believe we are talking about 2000 Series alloys, will create more complicated and problematic metallurgies. Though I'd have to look this one up.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-13-2009 14:29
Hello js55;

I thought about the galvanic couple, but then I didn't see that this was going to be used in a wetted environment necessary to provide act as an electrolyte. It was mentioned this was for an application involving tooling, which I assume is in a dry environment. Silly me.

I also assumed that the nature of the contamination was surface contamination due to fretting, dragging the copper across the aluminum surface, etc. It was my thought that some of the copper on the surface could be consumed during welding and manifest itself as a contaminant due its excess in the weld puddle. Am I on the right track in assuming the combination would most likely be an intermetallic which would be brittle and prone to cracking upon cooling to ambient temperatures?

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 07-13-2009 14:52
Al,
"Silly me."  :)

"Am I on the right track in assuming the combination would most likely be an intermetallic which would be brittle and prone to cracking upon cooling to ambient temperatures?"
I think so. The intermetallic would be in all likelyhood Theta. And, although not being an Al (all these Al's are getting confusing) metallurgist, far from it, it seems to me the Theta design for 2000 Al alloys is very carefully considered. The mix from contamination would indeed be embrittling since it cold create volume percents in areas far in excess of Cu's solubility. IMO.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-13-2009 20:19
Your opinion and knowledge is always welcomed as a valued resource from a good friend.

I'm in Houston this week. The summers are not any cooler than the last time I visited. It was 52 degrees when I left New England this morning. I'm afraid to look at a thermometer down here!.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 07-13-2009 21:09
Al,
If I was still in Houston I would have bought you dinner. There were still many places there I never got the chance to try.
And no, it ain't cool in the summer. Houston essentially has two seasons. Warm and hot. The warm lasting maybe 5 days.
Of course, I lived on the north side so we were a 1/2 degree or so cooler than the south side.  :)
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-13-2009 21:41 Edited 07-13-2009 21:44
Hello js;

It figures you're on the road while I'm visiting the "Great State of Texas". I was looking forward to sharing a table with you at one of the many fine establishments near the Johnson Space Center.

Hey, I may not be a rocket scientist, but who says I can't preach the "Gospel of Welding" to them?

It reminds me of the last time I was in Minnesota, I missed their summer by one day. I arrived in Minneapolis/St Paul on July 5Th.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 07-14-2009 03:42
The copper in the 2xxx alloys does lead to "intergranular corosion", a galvanic cell set up within the material. This is an issue in aircraft parts, and the reason You don't find 2xxx alloys in marine use.

I think too much copper concentrated in the grain boundries causing cracks while/after cooling is the more likely problem with the 6061 part in question.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Copper Contamination - Aluminum Welding

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