Welding in the Army?

Date 02-25-2002 18:17

I HAVE NOT BEEN IN THE MILITARY HOWEVER SOME OF THE WELDERS THAT I HAVE WORKED WITH HAVE BEEN IN THE MILITARY.
FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN THE NAVY WELDERS ARE BETTER TRAINED IN MORE PROCESSES. IF I WERE YOU I WOULD GO TO A COMMUNITY COLLEGE TAKE ALL THERE WELDING COURSES GET A DEGREE OR CERTIFICATE FIRST THEN JOIN THE MILITARY SHOULD YOU SO CHOOSE. THIS WILL EARN YOU MORE MONEY WHILE IN THE MILITARY.
WHAT PART OF THE COUNTRY DO YOU LIVE?

By Russ Date 02-26-2002 14:37

Hey thanks for the advice. I currently live in Arizona. I'll have a four year degree finished in December but not in welding. I intend on taking some welding classes this summer. I hadn't thought about getting a certificate but that sounds like a good idea. Any other advice is appreciated.

By RonG

Date 12-18-2002 12:49

If you go in to the US ARMY you most likely will go to Allied trades school at Aberdeen Proving Grounds in MD.

4 year degree in what? If you have a degree you can qualify for a commision. Your not apt to be doing any welding with Brass on your shoulders.

By gcom411 Date 06-22-2002 07:28

I have visited a Navy vessel and I can weld better than anything I saw in their shop.Granted they were practicing on stainless, but stainless is no more difficult than carbon.Verticle up may take a little more practice.But I was not impressed at all.

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 06-22-2002 22:26

I spent a little reserve time as a 44B (I think that was the MOS) and 6 years as a welder in the Navy. I have an opinion similar to yours but with the other view.

I haven't progressed to the stage where SS is the same as CS or Inco 625 the same as NiCu or 90 10 CuNi the Same as 70/30 CuNi or HY80 the same as A-36.

I have seen a few places where all the "shiny metal" was treated one way and all the "rusty metal" another. (Not in any branch of the military)

I'm not a very slick welder myself but other than maybe 10 people, I've been little impressed myself with both the skills and knowledge of your "average" welder.

The average welders I worked with in the military could

Cut out a 3/4" socket weld in a mirror with a hand grinder and never scar the pipe underneath.

Cut out and prep a 1/2" sch 80 pipe with an accuracy of +/- 2-1/2 Degrees Bevel, +/- .015 root opening and land and clean the weld remnant from the inside of a cutout weld without any evidence of the weld remaining or getting the smallest particle of debris in the pipe. (Without the use of a bevelling machine but with the finishing touches with a file)

They could SMAW weld .100" thick inconel seal rings to 4" thick steam chests using extensions on the handles of the electrode holders. (After spending 24+ hours cutting out, grinding, and controlling documentation prior to ever striking an arc)

They could stand knee deep in bilges full of seawater and oil while stray current would go through the steel toes of their boots while they welded. (Making butt welds in NiCu pipe with an allowance of +/- .030" for root contour)

Work 7-12's for 3 years straight with no OT pay and love what they are doing.

Read, Write, add, subtract, multiply, and divide

The military doesn't teach you everything, but the things you learn are usually unmatched in the civilian world.

I would highly recommend any branch of the service for someone interested in welding provided they understand that the primary sacrifice you may give is not your civilian freedoms, but your life.

Gerald Austin
EX (HT 1 USN, HT4956, HT4955)

By MBSims

Date 06-23-2002 04:35

Like Gerald, I also learned to weld in the Navy. The Navy's C-1 Welding School in San Diego is the best welding school in the nation in my opinion. When I went through the curricullum included aluminum GTAW and GMAW; SMAW plate welding on CS and HY-80 (a quenched & tempered alloy similar to T-1 steel); CS, C-Mo and Cr-Mo pipe welding with GTAW consumable inserts and SMAW fill; CS, SS, Monel and Cu-Ni GTAW socket welds and butt welds with consumable inserts; C-bevel canopy seal welding and mirror welding. All butt welds had to pass radiography and socket welds were PT and macroetch. The length was 32 weeks total for 8 hours a day, although I've heard it is shorter now. And the best part was they were paying me to go to school and providing room & board, instead of me having to pay someone else.

Having said that, I have also been responsible for administering welder qualification tests at 2 of our nuclear sites and have seen a wide range of experienced welders that learned their trade as apprentices in the trade unions (Boilermakers, Pipefitters, Ironworkers, Electricians, Millwrights). I have seen many excellent welders that rival the abilities of a Navy 4956 welder. You may want to visit the Pipefitter Local Union office in your area and check out their training facilities and whether they are accepting apprentices as a comparison to military training. If you join the military and sign up for a welding school, you will likely have to commit to 6 years of service. It could take you a similar length of time to work through the apprentice program of a union and progress to jouneyman level. My choice would be military welding school, but it's worth checking out all the options to find the path that you feel most comfortable with. Good luck on whatever path you choose.

Marty

By Sephiroth Date 09-08-2003 21:54

I am a 44B in the National Guards and I was just wondering how the training is in Aberdeen Proving Grounds. I will be leaving in Nov.

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 09-09-2003 22:32

I couldn't comment. I went right over to 44B from being in the Navy.

Thanks

G Austin

By SailorRtrd97 Date 03-20-2005 07:48

Hi Gerald, I like you was an HT1 in the Navy. I got my 4954 in 1980 and went back to get my 4955 and 4956 in 1981 and 82. I then went to Scotland to work on subs. I then went back to San Diego for heat treatment of metals school went back to Scotland. I then rotated back to SIMA San San Diego as a welder working on boilers and hull plate. I went to the Cape Cod in San Diego to the weld shop and went to Desert Storm and worked on alot of foreign ships as well as naval vessels. I then rotated to Advanced Weld School as a Welding instructor only to learn the fate of the welding school we all loved and went to. I was told checking in the the school was moving to Great Lakes to consoladate training. I like alot of other fleet sailors felt this was a big mistake to move the school from the fleet. I have since learned that they have started opening smaller welding schools around the country to ease spending money on moves. Since retiring and welding for a living i have noticed that my navy training and experience with tight welding controls, procedures that most civilian welders who have had none or very little formal training are amazed and what can be done. The things one leans from formal schooling either military or civilian can't be replaced. Experience is a very good teacher but should have formal training to go with it. Don't be afraid to ask questions or enroll in a school to advance.

HT1 Joe Walker (USN Retired0

By pipewelder_1999 (****)

Date 03-20-2005 12:58

Joe,

I think I know you. I was in the weld shop on the Hunley from Oct 83 to 86.

By SailorRtrd97 Date 03-20-2005 16:08

Hi Gerald

Yes we were in the shop together i was on the Hunley from 82 to 85 with bulldog Gantt.

Joe

By Jay Krout (*)

Date 08-03-2002 00:22

I had the priveledge of workin with 2 old sailors who were welders in the Navy, thet were both 2 of the best I've seen and I learned a lot from them, I myself never had the chance to go to a formal school, I wish I had and if I would , knowing what I know now, I'd have gone in the Navy for welding, instead of the Army as an infantryman. But, think about this--The biggest reason for going into the military, any branch, any job, is to serve your country, anything else besides that is just gravy, and I think thats what I had in my head when I was 18 and ready to go. But that's just an opinion, but to go into the service, go because you love this country, learn all you can wherever you go, and be prepared to give it all up when the crap is in the fan. Thanks J Krout

By richpitt3 Date 12-11-2002 01:24

HELLO RUSS I JOINED THE ARMY WHEN I WAS 18 AS A 44B(METALWORKER) WHICH IS THE ARMY'S FANCY WORD FOR WELDER .I HAD NEVER WELDED BEFORE I JOINED THE ARMY. NEVER MIND WHAT THE REST OF THE POST HAVE SAID. THE ARMY WILL TEACH YOU HOW TO WELD BUT IT IS UP TO YOU TO MAKE YOURSELF THE BEST WELDER YOU CAN BE. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHERE YOU LEARN TO WELD IF YOU ARE HAPPY BEING AN AVERAGE WELDER THAT IS ALL YOU WILL EVER BE.ALL YOU NEED TO BE A WELDER IS BE WILLING TO LEARN AND BE THE BEST YOU CAN BE.AND BY THE WAY I AM 32 YEARS OLD NOW .I AM THE QUALITY CONTROL INSPECTOR AT A STEEL FABRICATION PLANT AND A CERTIFIED WELDING INSPECTOR. AND I OWE IT ALL TO UNCLE SAM AND I AM ONE PROUD DESERT STORM VET.

By jamesbg (*)

Date 12-18-2002 10:13

I was a subcontract welder on the Portsmith navel yard putting up a building.It was just another building and I was under D1.1. On break I found out were the welding school was and walked over and interduced myself to the instructor.I was impresed with what they had to go through.Every test that we take they take however theirs is harder.In other words if someone jiged up a couple of test plates to make lets say a G3,after everything was set the teacher would put a lenght of pipe in the way about three inches from the test plate and the pipe would stay there untill the test was over.They called it a restricted test,my hat was off to those guys and gals.

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 12-18-2002 14:56

Restrictions make the test a real world test, How many times have you had something in your way and didn't have clear access to the joint? If you do any type of maint. welding you will see this all the time. It sounds like a great way to test the ability of the welder to make sound welds in the real world. 6GR was the only test I had witnessed that had a restriction, I think it's a great idea.
John Wright

By DavidP66 (*)

Date 04-04-2003 12:17

Hello Gcom411, im guessing you didnt run into any Nuke welders during your visit. If you get a chance take a tour on a Sub Tender. You will find some of the best welders the navy has to offer. And if you can, test your skills up against a good HT1 or HT2, i think youll have a different opinion afterwards.

I am in fact a former navy welder. i did five years in the navy..the thing about military welders is, some get the jobs and some dont...some will go through the basic training and end up stuck in duty station after duty station throughout thier carreers and not even touch a welder.

a little food for thought
David

By goodarc Date 05-11-2003 01:57

Hey! I just finished my MOS #1316 Basic Metal Workers course for the Marine Corp. We trained with the Army and the Air Force. You would train on an Army Base in Aberdeen Proving Grounds, MD. The school is great and the instructors are outstanding. If your good you can get AWS certified out of there. If your going to do the military thing though, go Marines, you can be a reservist if you want and it looks sooo much better, trust me it's already paying for itself in my situation. If you have any questions at all don't hesitate to drop me a line. I'd be happy to answer all of them. goodarcwest@yahoo.com

By JTMcC

Date 05-11-2003 04:51

Congradulations to you!

JTMcC

By DeSianoP Date 06-02-2003 12:27

Russ,

If your still out their.

I enlisted in the Navy in 1972 -77 as a Hull Technician during that time I became a Certified Pipe/plate welder. In spite what some may say welding on various high/low presssure piping systems on 1200psi boiler is an art and an experience in it's self. After being discharged from the Navy and obtained employment in a Ship Repair Company as a welder to welding forman to Welding Superintendent.Today I'm the Welding Program Manager for a Gov't agency in Portsmouth Va.

When I went into the Navy I had never welded at all. As the suggestion was made try taking a college course to see if you like it. After learning about welding try to learn more about the Non-destructive testing field also.

Just like all the trade welders are needed in industry. The young man now a days would rather work in the IT field we still need experience trade person.

Good luck with whatever road you choose to take.

Phil

By CHGuilford (****)

Date 06-02-2003 16:32

Phil,
You made some good points there. I think it is important to realize that IT equipment depends on all the trades for it' manufacture, transportation, set-up space, electricity, and so forth. Somebody has to provide skilled labor before all the computers can be powered-up, and skilled labor keeps them running. IT got where it is today because of the trades.
Chet Guilford

By RonG

Date 09-08-2003 23:35

Chet speak truth!
All them computers have an eletrical cord wired in them and when them massive black outs hit your area you can bet the IT people were sitting on there hands waiting for some craftsman to fix things for them.

The places where all that eletric power comes from was built built by a bunch of welders. Boiler makers, Pipe fitters, Iron workers, Electricans, Operating Engineers and even the Carpenters all have welders.

It must be a valuble trade with not limits.

By the hutch Date 09-11-2003 16:30

i know that army does not offer welding but navy does underwater welding too which is what im interested in

By RonG

Date 09-12-2003 16:59

Huh? Not sure I under stood that.
Just for clairfication. The Army most surely dose offer welder training.

The army does not offer training for under water welding.Unless you consider that under some Monsoon conditions we may as well been under water.

By Lawrence (*****)

Date 09-12-2003 17:15

I love this thread (started almost 2 years ago)

Not only does the Army offer welding. They offer to anybody with a computer and an internet connection one of the best free text information sources on Safety,theory, process, print reading, and application there is.

http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-237/toc.htm

Its a whole textbook at your fingertips.

By MBlaha

Date 09-13-2003 02:58

Thanks.

This is a fantastic site.

Mike

By hulltech Date 11-08-2004 03:23

Looks like I'm not the only former HT on the board. I have to agree with them though, the Navy weld schools are the way to go. Things have changed a bit though, it's not the individual schools anymore. I went through all the schools and it was 8 weeks for the first 2 and 16 weeks for the last one. The plate tests were done with no restrictions, but all the pipe welding was done with a 12" restriction. Of course in reality when onboard a ship, a 12" restriction was like welding it in a vice. Most welds I did were within a 6" restriction.

I will say that not every Navy welder was good. It all depended on how proficient they became which ment practicing on their own time. Being able to weld and grind using a mirror was a big plus also. My knowledge and skills gained as a Navy welder helped me land my current job as a welding coordinator.

Think about it, good schooling, paid to do it, and it's a great learning experience.

By labtechy (*)

Date 05-18-2005 16:16

I was very fortunate to be taught and work along side of many navy welders. Along with a year of formal training(4 teachers who were retired military) , I spent 12 years welding in Groton CT for Electric Boat. Many of our instructors were ex-service men/ trainers. Their insight into the "real world" gave us all confidence on anything that was thrown at us.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 05-20-2005 02:54

Hey Labtechy!

So you worked for 12 years at EB in "Rotten Groton, CT"?
1st, 2nd, or 3rd shift, what years did you work there?

If you did, then you would know the answer to this three part question:

Where was the welding school located in the shipyard with respect to the main gate and what were the name of the two bars situated across the street, and on the same side of the main gate - oh yeah, and what was the name of the street where the main gate was located on?

If you worked at EB for as many years as you mentioned then, these questions should be no problem at all for you to answer.

Respectfully,
SSBN727
Run Silent... Run Deep!!!

By labtechy (*)

Date 06-03-2005 18:44

All three shifts for that matter.
Ambit welding school was quite a ways from the main gate.
There was three bars not two.
Which way did Eastern pt. Rd point?

Question for you...
What year did the "union" go into Trusteeship? And Why?
What building was north of the main yard?
If you know your way around the yard, you can answer these.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 06-04-2005 09:00

Hey there!

Only a true "yardbird" would know that there were three but, very few would remember the name of "that" bar located on the same side of Eastern point road where "Elfies" was located... As for me, I do'nt remember mainly because, I hardly ever went there - spent most of my time @ Elfies trying to get in a game of pool usually an hour before or half an hour before closing time except for fridays...

Eastern point road "pointed" South towards the Long Island Sound if you got on it after getting off the bridge across the Thames river from New London and following it down past EB's main gate.
I used to live in Uncasville and Norwich besides Groton.

I left way before you did so (1982), I could'nt answer, unless - you're talking about all of the locals forming the MTC (Metal Trades Council)... If I remember correctly, EB had both Boilermakers and Pipefitters performing almost all of the welding in the yard and a variety of other craft union locals involved that ultimately made up the MTC... I'm trying to remember what "Nellie" mentioned to me about the sad state of affairs going on there the last time I passed through there in 93 or 94 but, I can only guess that when the "eighty-eight boats" and the Tridents contracts were close to completion there were massive lay-offs, and dues were no longer coming in as usual, BAD THINGS started to happen real quick is what he mentioned. Anywho, If you're asking when the MTC was formed, I honestly ca'nt remember or refer to my old union book because that's long gone... In fact, the only thing I have left is an "Extra" copy of my "red" badge with my dept#, badge# & my mug on it... I do know that the MTC was formed before I started there... If I remember correctly, One of the main reasons it was formed was in order to minimize the possibility of one of the locals independently going on strike on their own.

Are you talking about the "ways" which was north of the 260 bldg, or are you talking about the bldg north of the "wet" docks? Or are you talking about the pipe shop? Do you remember M Costa's Lobster wholesale right off the Thames - just north of EB, on Eastern Point road? Back then, I could go to the conveyor belt and pick my Maine Lobster, and purchase it for a buck a pound!!!
THOSE WERE THE DAYS!!!

Sorry Pal, It's been a long time since I was in the yard so, I can't remember everything that was going on way back when.
Good to know that another yardbird like myself did well after leaving EB :)

Respectfully,
SSBN727
Run Silent... Run Deep!!!

By labtechy (*)

Date 06-27-2005 16:58

"YardBird" haven't heard that one in a while. I've been back down a few times for funerals and the sail fest. That building that was North of the main yard was for the Sea Wolf mock up. Betcha didn't know they still used pattern makers and wood templates for everything, even in 1982 when you left. I was fortunate enough to work along side some real craftman. Saw some of the best welders I've ever seen there. Did you weld with a mirror? It almost became second nature after you did it for a while.
Later,
labtechy

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 06-29-2005 09:39

Hey Y ole scallywag!!!

That building used to be north from where the 688's were put together by the "ways" last time I worked there and believe me you, I do remember the templates and the patternmakers because I started out in the main yard back in the day. Second shift, 5pm to 1:30AM only to have 1/2 an hour to guzzle down as many long necks that they could serve you!!! Remember that?

As far as mirror welding is concerned, it's not a question as to whether or not I used a mirror or not because, the appropriate question would be: "what was the maximum amount of mirrors necessary for you to use in order to deposit a weld so that the joint in question would at a minimum, pass visual inspection?" BTW, I did alot of "hangerbanging" in the wet docks in my day and being a "leftie" always had me in demand... I even designed my own extension with moveable swivels and elbows which was built by an outside machinist friend of mine that worked so well that it was copied by the other crews all over EB. Oh yeah I almost forgot, the most I ever used was three mirrors and I broke many more than a hundred (maybe that's why my luck is so bad)!!! Every now and then my supervisor or general foreman would lend me out to give me a "tit - gravy" x-ray job or even run a few passes on some Hull section joints in order to reward us because they ran out of qualifications for us to get at the south yard welding school so, you knew you made it big when they finally sent you there for pipe welding school!!! what a place to work!!! Those were the days!!!
Take care brother!!!

Respectfully,
SSBN727
Run Silent... Run Deep!!!

P.S. When is the last time you had some "American chop suey?"