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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Motorcycle repair
- - By grizzzly (**) Date 06-26-2009 05:36
I have a 2001 Honda xr650l, and the out put shaft is striped and I don’t have the time to fix it. so I just welded the sprocket to the shaft. I used my TIG with turbloy for the filler (it is good for mixed metals and it is what I had laying around) but I was getting a lot of arc blow and wound up with shallow penetration. I am thinking that the arc blow is coming from the alternator, and I don’t want to remove it to do this project.
So my question is there any way to mitigate the arc blow or should I just give up on the tig and 6010 it (gob the hell out of it and hope for the best). I have to quench the weld to keep from burning the seal behind the sprocket, any recommended fillers that would perform well in this environment.
Parent - - By cwi49cwe (*) Date 06-28-2009 22:11
Repairs on ANY metal, to do properly ( especially an over the road vehicle where the liabilities are greater) it is imparative to get a proper identificationof the metal. Educated guesses might get you by but that"s another subject for another time. DO NOT use a E6010 stick electrode !!!! TIG would be my first and only choice, but what's the base metal, any heat treat properties of concern, I'll bet there is, will the welding process distroy those properties, is the full joint CLEAN of all contaminates (grease, oil, dirt, oxidation, etc.), you can't keep the weld zone cool and weld at the same time, the grease and oil in the bearing race and further inside will get hot. It's called heat transfer, without heat you don't have a serviceable weld. In my humble opinion ------ you do NOT have enough general weld knowledge to tackle this job, buy a new part and make a mechanical repair not welding, you will only create more expensive repairs if you strike an arc. As far as the arc blow, keep your work clamp connection as close as possible to the arc ( inches away ) and I'll bet the arc blow will go away.    
Parent - - By grizzzly (**) Date 07-07-2009 17:19
Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you. I have done every thing that I could to identify the metal but I have come up empty handed, so I am just making a guess at it.
Just to clarify I am doing this because I don’t have the time or money to do a engine rebuild right now (the engine and transmission have to come completely apart to replace the part that is striped on my bike) and this is my bike so if it breaks I am the one left walking.
The welds that I did have cracked in the first 50 miles but the material left from the weld has been holding it in place (so far about 800miles) but I don’t like it being cracked so I am going to try to reweld it.
I am just wondering if anyone had any experience with this or any ideas that might improve my chances of success.
Thanks Chris
Parent - By Superflux (****) Date 07-07-2009 19:59
FWIW, If it were me in you place (and I'm glad it's not), I would grind it out real good, preheat and reweld it with some 309 or similar (308). Of course, I never said to do that. I'm just thinking out loud...
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 07-07-2009 23:38
Hello grizzzly, you are fighting a battle here that is going to be hard to win due the constrictions of the application. The shaft is hard, maybe only case-hardened, but hard non the less. the sprocket is similarly a hardened material. In a perfect world you could remove the shaft, anneal it and the sprocket, and then weld them and harden them after the welding has been completed and possibly end up with a repair that would have some longevity. You already know that that isn't possible in this scenario. Having to concern yourself with the seal that is located directly behind the sprocket is a large limiting factor. Since you need to keep the shaft cool during this repair you would probably be better served by using a GMAW process to perform the welding. Not quite the penetration that GTAW could provide, but certainly less chance of having issues with burning things up either. A choice of using a stainless filler as was eluded to by Superflux is likely a decent choice considering that the nickel might provide some give for the stresses that will manifest while everything is cooling with these hardened materials. Peening the weld deposits immediately after applying the weld might help also.
     You mentioned arc-blow, when you are welding on this particular area of the motor you should really try to attach your ground directly to the sprocket. If you are grounding elsewhere on the motor you may run the risk of arcing the bearings in the engine or transmission. I would also disconnect the battery and possibly the ignition module before performing any welding. If you have already done welding without causing any issues with the motor you may have been lucky, I don't know whether I would push that luck.
     One more thought occured to me as I was writing this, using the GTAW process and silicon bronze filler metal might be a better choice for filler as this would essentially be considered more of brazing process instead of a welding process and possibly limit the possibility of cracking in the finished condition.
     Superflux also spoke of safety considerations. Not correctly addressing this problem could lead to a failure that could cause you personal injury. If for some reason this sprocket repair fails and jams the chain up you could be in for a really wild ride, so consider that you are doing this sort of thing at your own risk.
     I personally believe you would better serve yourself by biting the bullet so to speak and going ahead and doing the teardown and repair as it should be done and replacing the shaft and sprocket. It is, however, your choice. I have been in similar positions myself and have cheated the reaper at times, but not everyone is lucky like that. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 07-08-2009 01:53
With regard to the arc blow, You might try putting a thick steel plate between the alternator and the area You are welding. As Allan mentioned, ground to the sprocket or shaft, more for the sake of not arcing the bearing surfaces, but it should help with the arc blow too.
Parent - By grizzzly (**) Date 10-03-2009 04:54
Up-date
I rewelded the sprocket and only got marginally better results, the weld cracked out after the first 20 miles. I’ve put about 3000 miles on the bike and the cracks haven’t gotten any worse. That glob of a weld seems to be holding the sprocket in place. It looks like around Christmas I might have the time to do a rebuild. So I am going to just keep an eye on it and try not to weld on it anymore. If something happens I am going to try the tig brazing. Thanks for the Advice and insights
Chris
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Motorcycle repair

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