Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Pressure vessels
- - By Buser (*) Date 07-06-2009 20:25
Hello all,
My company has decided to investigate the possibility of manufacturing pressure vessels. Here's my problem.  As a new CWI with ZERO experience in pressure vessel work, I am expected to give a presentation explaining what the company will have to do to start the process.  Anyone on here know of any good resources I can find online that would help?  Any and all feedback will be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks,
Bill
Parent - - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 07-06-2009 21:00
I may appear of being unmodest, but I recommend you to read an article titled "What chemical engineers should know about ASME VIII Code", that was published on the November, 2008 issue of Hydrocarbon Processing magazine. You can find it online at www.hydrocarbonprocessing.com
I said "unmodest" because the prime author of the article it's me. The second author is Mr. Rafael Sabato, now a mechanical engineer, who was then an undergraduate student at Mackenzie Presbyterial University in Sao Paulo.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil
Parent - - By michael kniolek (***) Date 07-07-2009 01:48
Crisi
Have you ever seen a MTR that has a MAT spec for ASTM  A240 (FORGED)?
MDK
Parent - - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 07-08-2009 14:02
Michael,
English being not my mother language, I'm not ashamed to ask what MTR and MAT mean.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 07-08-2009 14:26
Professor Crisi,
   Maybe I can help.

MTR= Material test report
MAT= Material

jrw159
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 07-08-2009 17:20
JRW has it right.
Parent - By michael kniolek (***) Date 07-07-2009 01:27 Edited 07-07-2009 01:41
I would Purchase some books (make sure you look at the 2nd link)
http://www.amazon.com/ASME-Code-Simplified-Power-Boilers/dp/0070116369

http://www.scribd.com/doc/6386787/Pressure-Vessels-the-ASME-Code-Simplified

, Find a sample of a QC manual of a company who is a Stamp holder, Get the CODE most of all.
I would ask you this....
Do you calibrate you tools?
Do you Record WPS/PQR?
Welder continuity?
Do you have in house NDT (written procedures FOR MT RT PT)?
Inspectors need training?.
Do you have a written practice SNT-TC-1a?
Do you have a LVL III or access to one?
I think you will also need to produce a vessel for an audit.
Will you be designing vessels?
What stamps are going for?
It would help to know if you currently do any kind code work?
These are some of the things to consider.

This is a link to some great resources.

http://www.onetb.com/forum/index.php?sid=cb3b921f0622b3b0afddf934dc914b89

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/39546/ASME-U-stamp

http://www.onetb.com/asme_code_certification.htm

http://www.asme.org/
Parent - By michael kniolek (***) Date 07-07-2009 01:33
I found this ...............

Procedure for Obtaining an ASME “Code Stamp” or a National Board “R Stamp”
1. Determine which stamps will be needed . ASME “Code” Stamps (PP, A, S, U, H,
etc.) are required in most States to build NEW pressure vessels, boilers and to install some piping that comes
directly off boilers. The National Board “R” stamp is required in some states to make repairs or alterations to
EXISTING ASME “Code Stamped” pressure vessels, boilers and piping. The requirement to have an “R” stamp is
becoming more commonplace each year. In addition, some owners and engineers require that contractors have
“R” or other stamps to be eligible to do work for them. Companies that have “stamps” are recognized widely as
those that are more capable and quality-oriented than companies that do not have “stamps.”

2. ASME Code Stamps cost approximately $1600 each every three years, plus a shop or field survey (i.e. audit) every
three years. An R Stamp costs approximately $550 every three years, plus a shop or field site audit every three
years. The direct audit cost is about $5,000. If you get more than one stamp at the same time, only one audit is
conducted. The Stamp fees and a retainer for the survey is payable in advance.

3. Obtain ASME “Code” stamp application forms from ASME Code Accreditation Department, Three Park Avenue,
New York, New York 1001-5990 (212-591-8581) or at www.asme.org. Obtain “R” stamp application forms from
the National Board of Boiler and Pressure Vessel Inspectors, 1055 Crupper Avenue, Columbus, Ohio (614-888-
8320) or at www.nationalboard.org. Complete and send in these forms along with the requested funds. Expect 8
to 12 weeks until the survey can occur.

4. If acquiring an “R” Stamp, obtain a copy of the National Board Inspection Code (NBIC) from National Board. If
repairs are going to be made on ASME Code-Stamped tanks, boilers or piping, or if acquiring ASME “Code”
Stamps, obtain the applicable Code books from ASME Publications Department (1-800-THE ASME) or at
www.asme.org. See the attached list of required Code Sections for each Code stamp.

5. Contact an Authorized Inspection Agency and arrange a contract for their services. YOU MUST HAVE A
CONTRACT IN FORCE BEFORE THE NATIONAL BOARD OR ASME WILL SCHEDULE THE SURVEY. A list
of Inspection Agencies is posted on both the National Board and ASME web sites. One only pays for the services
of the Inspection Agency as they are used, and their use is only required when manufacturing, erecting or
repairing ASME Code-stamped items and during the survey

6. Prepare a Quality Control Program following the requirements of the National Board Inspection Code and/or
ASME as applicable. Assistance in developing the QC Program and training in its implementation can be
obtained from Sperko Engineering Services, Inc. (336-674-0600 or at sperko@asme.org.)
¨ Prepare and qualify welding procedures and welders. Prepare NDE procedures and qualify personnel in
accordance with ASNT document SNT-TC-1A or make arrangements with an outside NDE laboratory.
¨ Subcontracted services are acceptable for most specialized activities (e.g.. design, drawings, NDE, heat
treating) but not for welding. The Stamp holder is responsible for ALL work done, including any
subcontractor work.

7. Have Authorized Inspection Agency review and concur with QC program. Prepare mock-up pipe/vessel or repair,
as appropriate for the Stamp desired, following the QC program. Leave one major seam tacked but unwelded or
as directed by the Authorized Inspector. Assistance with this is available from Sperko Engineering.

8. The Quality Control manual and its implementation will be audited by a Representative of the National Board of
Boiler and Pressure Vessel Inspectors or Chief Inspector of the Local Jurisdiction and your Authorized Inspection
Agency Supervisor and your Authorized Inspector.
¨ First day - Review of QC program, Implementing QC procedures, welding and NDE procedures.
¨ Second day - Shop inspection to verify implementation of program. Revisions to QC program.
When the audit is conducted by local jurisdiction, it may only take one day.

9. Audit team will advise towards the end of the second day in the exit interview whether your program passed or
failed. . You may begin work with the concurrence of the Authorized Inspector after a successful survey, but you
may not actually stamp anything until you receive the stamp from ASME or National Board, usually within a
couple of weeks.
TABLE OF POSSIBLE STAMPS
CODE SECTION STAMP ITEM
I A Assembly of Power Boilers
S Power Boilers
M Miniature Boilers
E Electric Boilers
PP Power Piping
V Boiler Safety Valves
III N Nuclear Components
NA Nuclear Shop Assembly and Installation
NPT Nuclear Parts
NV Nuclear Valves
IV H Heating Boilers
HLW Lined potable water heaters
VIII, Division 1
U Pressure Vessels
UM Miniature Pressure Vessels
UV Pressure Vessel Safety Valves
VIII, Division 2
U2 Pressure Vessels
VIII, Division 3
U3 Pressure Vessels
XI RP Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic Pressure Vessels
NATIONAL R REPAIRS AND ALTERATIONS OF PREVIOUSLY
BOARD ASME “CODE STAMPED” VESSELS, BOILERS AND
INSPECTION PIPING
CODE
Parent - By michael kniolek (***) Date 07-07-2009 01:43 Edited 07-07-2009 01:46
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 07-07-2009 02:11
Bill; One of the first things that needs to be investigated is the ASME stamp(s) that will be used. 

I suggest visiting www.sperkoengineering.com Mr. Sperko is one of the worlds leading experts and can guide you through the process and possibly even help attain your ASME Certificates of Authorization.  Mr. Sperko is an ASME Instructor and has several seminars your company may wish to take advantage of.  He's located in North Carolina.

It's not an easy path but also doesn't have to be as difficult as it might sound.

Good luck.
Parent - - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 07-08-2009 14:17
Michael and Jon,
Your recommendations to Bill are very good indeed, but for someone who's already familiar with ASME VIII and wishes to enlargen his knowledge on the matter.
But Bill himself says that he knows nothing on ASME Code and pressure vessels. So, my advice to him is to start reading my article, that is directed to chemical engineers working in oil refineries and petrochemical plants, who know that "there exists an ASME VIII Code" because they've seen it written on the nameplates of the vessels on their workplaces, but don't know exactly what it is used for. As you know better than me, it's use goes far beyond the calculation of the wall thickness.
After reading my article and having got a general knowledge of what ASME VIII Code is and is used for, then Bill can go through the references you've recommended him and become more familiar with the Code.
Don't you agree with me?
Giovanni S. Crisi
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 07-08-2009 17:22
I will check the recomendation for reading material.
MDK
Parent - By jon20013 (*****) Date 07-09-2009 04:32
Giovanni, absolutely correct, your advice should be the starting point for Bill.  My suggestion of hiring Mr. Sperko as a consultant would be only after Bill and his Company realize the tasks in front of them in obtaining ASME Certificate(s) of Authorization(s).
Parent - - By michael kniolek (***) Date 07-08-2009 20:49
Buser It is customary to participate in your own thread.
I would guess you are to busy reading all the info.
MDK
Parent - - By Bill M (***) Date 07-10-2009 18:09 Edited 07-10-2009 18:11
Bill-

I kinda assume you are the quality management representitive on this undertaking. 
While you may not have experience quite yet, I would hope that your Engineering department is somewhat familiar with the ASME codes for your desired certificate of authorization stamp.  Obtaining such a stamp is a dedicated team effort.

Mike above provided exactly what you will have assembled when you are ready for your registration audit.

I would also start interviewing Boiler Insurance providers like Hartford (HSB).  They can provide a lot of information describing whats involved, costs, and provide info on your quality system requirements and con also help with development as well.

ASME Section 8- Appendix 10 is titled "Quality Control System" requirements.  It provides some description for the requirements of your quality control system. 
Parent - - By Buser (*) Date 07-11-2009 01:43
I would like to apologize for not responding for so long, I have been knee deep researching all the info you guys have provided.  All the info has been great, used most, didn't quite see how some related, but this is exactly what I was looking for!  I think I have convinced management to hire an outside consultant to help prepare the company for code work.  Our quality department is just now starting to qualify welders and procedures and we have a long way to go.  If any of you would like to see the product we currently make, check us out at Vactor.com.  Again, thank all of you for the help and keep the opinions and info comeing!!

Buser
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 07-12-2009 03:51
The first thing I would suggest is contacting an Authorized Inspection Agency. You are going to have to do it anyway.
They can certainly walk you through any steps necessary.
They will also help you with your manual, gap assessments, your audits, and not only will most likely be one of the guys performing your audits but will perform what is essentially a pre audit, so they certainly have a bit of stake in making it right.
Parent - - By Buser (*) Date 07-13-2009 20:59
js55
Do you know of any authorized inspection agencies in the central IL area?  Also, how long does the whole process take from beginning to earning your stamps?  (estimation)
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 07-13-2009 21:19
Though not advocating any specific agency, my experience is with HSB. I would assume they have people available in that area. Though I know things are thin right now. They have smart experienced people, sit on a lot of code committees, do not take it personal when I argue with them (and everyone in here I think knows my penchant for arguing-especially when I'm right) and have a wide diversity of experience and resources.
The time frame sorta depends on the state of your current system. If you have a good system in place, and good people, minor adjustments, some education, and developing a Manual may be all thats necesary. If not you got some cleaning up and indoctrination and training to do.
How much experience with PV's do you have?

One more thing. The President of the company has to be on board or its futile.
Parent - - By Buser (*) Date 07-13-2009 22:29
Well, regretably, we have no experience:(  With the down turn in the economy, my company is looking to expand our product line by adding PV's.  We already make debris bodies for our vaccum trucks, but they aren't built to any code.  Six months ago we decided to send an inspector and myself to Hobart to take CWI class and start qualifying our welders to D1.1.  With that project just getting started, we will obviously have a long road to earn any stamp.  I will do a web search to find HSB, do you know the site name?
Parent - - By Buser (*) Date 07-13-2009 22:31
HSB Global Standards?
Parent - By Arctic 510 (**) Date 07-14-2009 01:24
I think the HSB referred to is Hartford Steam and Boiler...
Parent - - By new tito (***) Date 07-14-2009 15:12
Go check out the national board web page.  You will find a ton of information there.  Search around a bit and you will find a list of Authorised Insepction agencies.

As far as length of time, I would figure about 6 months should be good enough to complete your audit and get your stamps.  Of course this all depends on how well ALL DEPARTMENTS work together.

As for price - you're looking at about $15K total out-the-door price.  This includes most items such as books, AI costs, demo vessel material (things to be purchased, not items like TIME spent working).
Parent - By Buser (*) Date 07-14-2009 20:45
Thank you all for the help!!  I have found some great leads and info.  I'll post when management makes a decision either way.  Thanks again!!

Buser
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / Pressure vessels

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill