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Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / About freedom...
- - By michael kniolek (***) Date 07-08-2009 23:26
Women in Afghanistan are trying to shed the  symbol of suppression by refusing to where a BURKA.
These women could be killed by doing so but they persist. I support these women who fight against their cruel overlords. If they had a true free society they could remove them, they do not ,yet they still persist.
To the women in America who came from the middle east. You have the freedom to discontinue this horrible practice, and when you don’t you prove to the rest of this county that either you or your husband is loyal to the oppressive distorted side of Islam. You do not have to wear these things yet you do.
Parent - By uphill (***) Date 07-09-2009 12:54
I would bet they fear for life and revenge. 
Parent - - By darren (***) Date 07-09-2009 13:06
the last statement in your post holds the key.
they do not have to but they do, whether it is a healthy choice or not is not relevant, it is their choice.
some do not consider it a horrible practice, its up to them.
if they are being forced and wish to not wear a burka, that is another thing entirely.
Parent - - By michael kniolek (***) Date 07-09-2009 21:51
is it a choice or did they bring the oppression with them?
Parent - - By darren (***) Date 07-09-2009 23:15
i agree i dont get it but its not up to me to make their decisions only to support them when they make them so if they do not want to wear a burka and someone is making them i support them in choosing not too, if they want to wear it and someone is telling them they cant i support them in their choice to wear it.
i support individual rights.
Parent - - By michael kniolek (***) Date 07-09-2009 23:41
Well, I beg to differ………
Its is our business and this is why, our nation needs to be more selective with allowing people to live in this once great country., people who practice this and other oppressive behaviors and wish to continue them in this country, should not have opportunity to.
If they are not trying to flee the oppression of their screwed up country, why are they here, to what change what we have into what they left?
We need to select who lives here not just Accept who comes here.

Trust me i support individual rights.
Its not thier chioce its opression
like a Jewish star
or a kkk hood
or a swastika

cuz if it wasnt then a woman would not be killed for not wearing them
Parent - - By darren (***) Date 07-10-2009 03:01
i respectfully disagree.
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 07-10-2009 14:15
you think America should allow people into the country who wish to hold onto opressive behavior?
You think we as americans should have no say in who we welcome into the country?It has been said in history that Tolerance (without common sense) is the first step to a nation’s demise.
Parent - By KSellon (****) Date 07-10-2009 16:07
our nation took that step......and it is following California and its way of operating into the ocean.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-10-2009 16:47
Mike 

The original settelers in America from Europe were Puritans

Many if not most of their social traditions they brought to the new world would be judged opressive by today's standards.

Also keep in mind that millions of women worldwide wear the burka by choice out of a sense of modisty..  Yes they do.. In countries where they have a choice.

Nothing wrong with fighting opression... but careful not to become an opressor whilst doing the job eh?
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 07-10-2009 17:14
Bravo Lawrence.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-10-2009 18:55
Bryon,

As a side note... I personally approve of most of those "Puritanical" virtues that today's society views as opressive.

I don't believe so much in compelling others to uphold these virtues but it's how I try to live and how I trained up my kids.
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 07-10-2009 18:42
True................
So very true it is a very fine line.
MDK
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 07-10-2009 18:47
DID PURITAINS STONE TO DEATH?
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-10-2009 18:51
Lighten up... Were talking about Burkas here.. Clothing and opression ...

Focing American Females to stop wearing the burka is stupidly repressive... They may wear them if they wish.
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 07-10-2009 19:08
And i agree Its a garment Thats all nothing more, its why some wear them.
BTW any1 have any friends from the Middle east ,any first hand accounts?
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 07-10-2009 19:14
Lighten up...

You are right, I should and will.
Burkas and chastity belts for every one.... well just the girls.
:)
Parent - By KSellon (****) Date 07-10-2009 13:55
Being in America allows you that choice. Allowing oneself to stay in an oppressive environment is ones own choice.
Women stay in homes where they are beat, they have a choice, a hard one but still a choice.
Everyone has a dependancy--good or bad.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 07-10-2009 16:35
It a cultural as well as a religious thing.  They are ment to promote modesty just like the hijab.  All religions are oppresive to "individual rights".  That's why religion in America has become a comodity.  If a church won't accept a certain behaviour then you can go down the street and find another one that will.  Religion should change people, not the other way around like in America.

The burqa and hijab are not up for debate in many places because of the religious value that they add.  God is not about "individual rights".
Parent - - By KSellon (****) Date 07-10-2009 17:56
FAITH changes people-- not religion. Religion like you said is a commodity.

Good thing Ms Palin is promoting modesty and her faith based beliefs here in America
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 07-10-2009 18:45
Religion is treated as a commodity.  It is the laws that that people have faith in.  Unbreakable laws that guarantee no rights or freedom to do as one pleases.  Blessed Mother Theresa of Calcutta was the model of modesty.  Palin is going to exploit her newly acquired "fame" and pimp herself out on the money train.  Plain and simple.
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 07-10-2009 19:06
"Tell the faithful women that they must keep their gaze
focused below/on the ground and cover their sexual organs.
They must not put their beauty and their jewellery on display.
They must hide their breasts behind a purdah. They must
not exhibit their beauty to anybody except their husbands,
brothers, nephews, womenfolk, servants, eunuch employees
and children. They must not move their legs briskly while
walking because then much of their bodies can get
exposed." (Sura Al Noor 24:31)
"Oh nabi, please tell your wives and daughters and faithful
women to wear a covering dress on their bodies. That would
be good. Then nobody can recognise them and harrass
them. Allah is merciful and kind." (Sura Al Hijaab 33: 59)

"Tell the faithful women that they must keep their gaze
focused below/on the ground  (not oppresive at all)

The rest is just like chirstian modesty guidlines.

If i force my wife to wear a bikini every day i would be considered an abusive man, but why is it when they force the Burqa its a religeous right?
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 07-10-2009 19:07
the bible is all about choice and free will.
Parent - - By darren (***) Date 07-11-2009 03:43
im picking up what your putting down there kay.
and of course lawrence as always is a voice of reason.

i heard an american judge say in all his years on the bench, every one would say" i am an american he has no more rights than i do" and he was waiting for the real american to show up in his court one day and say it the way it was meant" i am an american i have no more rights than he does".

i f you were truly asking me mike if i have friends whom are Muslim and are from the middle east and meant it out of a point of curiosity pure and simple i would love to share the profound lessons that i have had the opportunity to learn from them but i feel from your nasty rhetoric it is just bull baiting and there fore will just leave you with this.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xjPODksI08
darren
p.s. God bless america.....aint just a bumper sticker
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 07-13-2009 16:00
but i feel from your nasty rhetoric it is just bull baiting ..
No, its not baiting you fail to see the point im trying to make.
Im not in the habbit of Discrimination.
I to have had some lessons and contact with the people who you claim in being nasty about............. NUFF SAID.
A case of you dont agree with me so  your racisist, nasty, hate monger....ill thell my wife that shell love it.
MDK
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 07-13-2009 16:17 Edited 07-13-2009 16:20
Darren please justify your comment that my comments are nasty.

to me its insane that i feel people shouldnt be forced to do something or allowed to force someone to do somthing in the USA and i get labled!

WOW!
MDK
Parent - By darren (***) Date 07-13-2009 17:48
i do not want to be part of a "he said she said" forum exchange so i will end like this at least for me.
your posts seem to be full of innuendo, pressumtion and assumption and to me they seem to have an agry tone for which reason i do not know.
if the issue really bothers you then dont wear a burka, dont force anyone to wear a burka, lead by example, and if someone comes to you and says 'help i am being forced to wear a burka' then offer them the assistance they ask for.
i applaud you on your reading multiple theological texts. i would ask you to consider this, is not your trying to make others follow your interpretation of that text the exact thing that is bothering you about someone else; they are trying to interpret the text for you or someone else, i.e. making someone wear a burka "against their will".
let each person lead their life, lead by example as best you can and "be the change you want to see in the world" ghandi.
peace is a internal choice not an external event.
darren
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 07-10-2009 18:57
The Quran does not specifically mention the Burqa or tell women to wear such extremely confining clothes.  Its like the Apple in the bible everyone says its in there but no one... NO ONE... can point it out.
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 07-11-2009 04:14
There is no apple per say. It's the tree of knowledge.

In this case, a particular knowledge as it relates to good and evil. The original Hewbrew text translated to english used the word, thou it has two meanings. Either knowledge, or knowing as in being familar with something. You can have knowledge of a sport for instance, but can only know it in the sense of the alternate meaning by playing it.
The rest of the passages surrounding it give a clue as to what was being referred to. Neither Adam nor Eve "Knew" they were naked until after the proverbial apple bite, nor did they recognize many other things until that time.

Not sure where the "apple" came from, but the original text doesn't mention it directly and only mentions it as "fruit".
Parent - - By kipman (***) Date 07-10-2009 13:43
Michael,
Your last paragraph begins "To the women in America who came from the middle east."  I may be wrong, but I would guess you'd likely have an easier time reaching that target audience in a different forum.
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 07-10-2009 14:11
you know i realized that after the post but didnt think it was neccesary to change, it was a general observation.
MDK
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 08-23-2009 16:51
Be it real or a teen causing problems for her family this is what i was trying to make a point about,if they get that islam law in the us this could happen for rea....AND IT DOES HAPPEN ALREADY.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,541205,00.html
Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / About freedom...

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