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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / D17.1 certification thickness range dilema
- - By mike FREE Date 07-09-2009 15:10
In performing welder certification samples per D17.1 we are doing the tube fillet test and the wall thickness of the tube is less than the sheet thickness (.032 and .040 thick respectively per FIG. 4.9 pg.17) my question is when the mat'l thickness's are not equall which thickness do you use to calculate your "qualified thickness range" (per para. 4.3.3.1 pg.5) I cannot find anything on this..... any help would be greatly appreciated.
Mike
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 07-09-2009 21:31
My first inclination would be to use the thinner material for determining the upper limit and the thicker member for determining the lower limit.

Al
Parent - By mike FREE Date 07-09-2009 22:26
That was my first thought as well but I hated to guess.
Parent - - By Ringo (***) Date 07-10-2009 18:11
Look at 4.3.3.1.That should hook you up.
Parent - - By mike FREE Date 07-10-2009 20:59
Ringo
I appreciate the reply but I am afraid you did not clearly understand my question... I have read several times the paragraph you've reccomended. I even referenced that exact paragraph in my original question. and I am certain it does not cover it.
Parent - - By Ringo (***) Date 07-13-2009 12:56
Well I beg to differ.That's the only place in the code it's covered.
Parent - - By mike FREE Date 07-14-2009 14:15
Ringo
If you can see anywhere in the code where it describes which thickness of material to use when calculating the qualified range when your samples are comprised of two different thicknesses please enlighten me because I don't see it. My point was that it is not covered in the spec.
Mike
Parent - By flamin (**) Date 07-14-2009 16:28
Mike-

I cannot say for certain, but since there are no specifics called out in D17.1, perhaps referring back to one of the applicable documents listed in 2.2 (17) or (23) perhaps, will give you the information you are looking for. I don't have a copy of either with me, but I "think" the range qualified would be based on the maximum welded single pass fillet size and smaller.

Jason
Parent - - By Ringo (***) Date 07-14-2009 16:52
It would be 0.67t to 4t,in your case .022-.160 would be the range qualified,just like it says.I'm not trying to be a smart a**,but that is the only place that it's covered.I guess we can agree to disagree,and you can post the question to the D17.1 sub-committee.
Parent - - By flamin (**) Date 07-14-2009 18:13 Edited 07-14-2009 18:39
Ringo-

So based on the figures you came up with, you are saying to use the low limit of the thinner piece and the high limit of the thicker piece, which essentially gives you the widest range of thickness qualification. I think where the confusion is, there are two pieces of different thickness, and 17.1 doesn't clarify whether to use the thick, or thin piece to qualify range, and it doesn't say to use a combination of the two, but then again, it doesn't say you can't do that either. Depending on the interpretation, which could potentially get someone in trouble, it could mean many things. It is bit confusing.

EDIT:
Here is a hypethetical question.
The two pieces of material we have been discussing are relatively similar in thickness, and their range of qualification overlap eachother drastically. If you had for example, a piece of 1/16 wall tubing welded to a piece of 1/2" plate, now you have a situation where the range of qualification wouldn't overlap. So my question is, would the thickness range of qualification be divided to two ranges, (.042"-.250" and .355"-2"), or does one thickness take precedence over the other?

Jason
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 07-14-2009 19:26
Not sure..  Been watching the thread and here are a few thoughts.. 

Are we putting the cart before the horse here...  ?

Do we have PQR's already established (qualified by testing  *4.2*) in the material groups and thicknesses (Grooves and fillets are required for less than .063) for these performance tests we are discussing?

Some food for thought.

3.7.5 Special Applications. When none of the test welds described above are applicable to a
given production weld, a special welder or welding operator qualification limited to the specific
application may be achieved with a test weld consisting of the given production weld or a test
weld representative of the given production weld.

4.4.4 Alternate Methods of Procedure Qualification. In lieu of 4.4.3, welding procedure
qualification may be accomplished by welding at least one procedure qualification test weldment
consisting of any of the following:
(1) A simulated weld joint sample.
(2) An actual part.
(3) An applicable qualification test weld.
(4) A special test weldment.
(a) Simulated service test weldment.
(b) Prototype structural special test weldments.
(c) Non-loaded special test weldments.

The Engineering Authority shall provide the test methods and acceptance criteria for the test
weldments to be used when qualifying weld procedures.

4.4.5 Use of Existing Qualification. Alternatively, and in lieu of 4.4.2, an existing qualified
welding procedure may be accepted as equivalent to the requirement of this specification at the
sole discretion of the Engineering Authority.
Parent - - By Ringo (***) Date 07-14-2009 19:53
It's a grey area,charcoal maybe,But if you read it as it's written it states "a test weld with a base metal thickness of t shall qualify welds with a thickness range of 0.67t to 4t (in Mike's case).We do a groove and a fillet here for WPS and use an actual part for PQR's,as most of our parts are very thin.

I figured you would be the voice of reason Lawrence. 
Parent - - By flamin (**) Date 07-15-2009 02:51
Good stuff guys. I learn something here every day.

Jason
Parent - - By mike FREE Date 07-17-2009 14:56
Thanks for all the input Guys and it appears Ringo is right this area is "charcoal grey". I have gone with my first inclination to use the thicker member to set the low range and the thinner to set the high range so basically I certified my guys from.027-.128 And I realize I am shooting myself in the foot a little bit but I figured this way no NADCAP auditor could say I was trying to manipulate the system in my favor.
When you have my kind of luck you learn to play it safe....
Mike
Parent - By Ringo (***) Date 07-17-2009 16:46
You should be good there.I'm sure it won't land you in jail.
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / Certifications / D17.1 certification thickness range dilema

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