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Up Topic AWS.org / Forum News & Help / Are you for or against removal of Off Topic Bar And Grill?
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Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 07-27-2009 19:13
Hello ross, that would seem to be a reasonable approach to satisfying the issue at hand. There are still likely content issues for others to contend with. I would believe that those will likely work themselves out as well. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By darren (***) Date 07-27-2009 19:44
awesome re think ross,
Parent - - By ross (***) Date 07-27-2009 20:34
Darren,

I just gave you access to the OTB&G. Do you see the forum and can you try a test post there?

Thanks,

Ross
AWS Marketing
Parent - By darren (***) Date 07-27-2009 21:34
all any problem requires is good men/women a little time and a sense of direction.
this has been an awesome experience.
thanks Ross for all that you do and your stalwart guidance.
darren
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 07-27-2009 21:49
What's with the double standard here Ross? You decide to open the OTB&G back only for some folks?
I ask this because I don't see the OTB&G up and running again so, am I to presume that you're now running a section that is even private to some longtime AWS members in good standing? Please say it isn't so Ross!!! We at least deserve an explanation as to what you're doing here.

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By ross (***) Date 07-27-2009 22:25
Henry,

No, I just wanted to test the feature before allowing everyone to register for it. Darren logged off before he could test it and right then only Uphill was logged on (from the group that had posted about the removal of the board) so I asked him to test it. Then I guess Darren logged on again. Just convenience, no favoritism intended. I was randomly asking people. It seems to work, so I am going to set up a topic where people can request to be included.

I am adding you in a minute, Henry, so you are in the club, too, but everybody else please wait until I get this organized.

No pushing or shoving, kids! Single file! Keeps your hands to yourselves!

Ross
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 07-27-2009 22:25
I think he's using Darren to test the access idea.
Parent - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 07-28-2009 02:02
Ross I would also like access
Parent - - By ross (***) Date 07-27-2009 20:52
Rick,

I see you're logged in right now. Can you see the Off Topic Forum at the moment? I just gave you access as a test. Try to make a post there. Thanks,

Ross
Parent - By uphill (***) Date 07-27-2009 21:22
Ross,
Very good of you to re-open the otf even if only for a trial. Thanks for trying to calm the beast.
Dave
Parent - By lonestarwelder7 (**) Date 07-27-2009 00:53
against..
currently looking for another site. anyone know of one..?
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 07-27-2009 01:41
I don't get offended by off color jokes, dirty jokes, political jokes and the like, but I CAN understand that the AWS can not be seen as endorsing these things. Did the OTBG get out of hand from time to time? I have to admit that it did, and I probably threw some fuel on the fire. As much as I did enjoy some threads in this section, it hasn't got a thing to do with the purpose of the sight, wasn't the reason I visit the sight, and it's loss won't keep Me from coming back. Will I miss it? Yes, but I miss other things too, & life goes on.
Parent - By jon20013 (*****) Date 07-27-2009 03:29
I didn't notice it weas gone until this morning and had no idea it was being removed.  I guess I don't really care either way.  It was nice to have a place to chat but then again it seemed like it had become a whipping post for politics and I don't miss that aspect.  As Dave said, life goes on.
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 07-27-2009 12:27
Against.
No one is forced to agree with or even read any thread on this forum.
If you see something you don't like, the back button is just a click away.
If you don't like a paticular poster's attitude, you can use the ignore option and never have to see any of their posts again.
People's opinions differ. Nothing new here.
To call for the immediate removal of the entire OTBAG, just because you see something that is offensive to you, is assanine.
To actually do it is not moderation, it's arrogant censorship.
There are far more worthwhile conversations in the OTBAG than not.

Tim Gary
Parent - - By vantage500man (**) Date 07-27-2009 12:31
Against
Parent - By Josh Flynn (**) Date 07-27-2009 12:39
against
Parent - By JCP (*) Date 07-31-2009 02:59
Against, I don't post much but i liked it, I haven't worked  in the field since about Feb. I liked reading everyone's thoughts on politics and jokes, off topic reminds me of better times when i was just fitting and welding and bs ing w/ other hands.  I guess it reminds me that theres some real intelligent people out there getting there hands dirty
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 07-27-2009 12:54
against
Parent - By bmaas1 (***) Date 07-27-2009 17:17
Against
Parent - By mcostello (**) Date 07-28-2009 02:26
against, really felt like discussions at a local bar and grill. With out the problems of throwing or catching punches!
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 07-27-2009 13:14
Against.
Parent - - By 522029 (***) Date 07-27-2009 22:48
Against.

Griff
Parent - By okwelder82 (***) Date 07-28-2009 01:00
Against
Parent - By rfieldbuilds (**) Date 07-28-2009 01:36
As original posted, I AM very much against the change. I will say, I do support Ross and AWS marketing in providing us the opportunity to utilize this venue to discuss non welding related topics. Yes, I agree the political rants were wearing me down; however, even as I grow older and more conservative I enjoy dissent from those willing to voice reason to their beliefs. Our forefathers fought and gave life to support other peoples right to speak freely.
I call on those present to be reasonable and show restraint and respect for one another. For now, democracy has a voice. Any one heard any good jokes lately?
Parent - By Tyler1970 (***) Date 07-28-2009 01:48
i added a topic, about the old OTBAG, and they already deleted it?!!??!! it was  The New Off the Topic Bar and Grill
Parent - - By Revjsnizzle (**) Date 07-27-2009 13:28
I am against it's removal.  It was the first forum I checked before checking on anythingelse, and now I only keep coming back hoping that it will be there.
Parent - - By 3.2 Inspector (***) Date 07-27-2009 14:19
Well, then AWS dont loose much by you not coming back are they?
This is after all a W E L D I N G forum.

3.2
Parent - - By RioCampo (***) Date 07-27-2009 14:45
Against removal. Where are we going for fun and entertainment??
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 07-27-2009 14:49
Cheetah's and The Green Door in Las Vegas!!!  :-)
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 07-27-2009 15:39
This is quite a consensus. And from some fairly important forum participants. I am impressed. I too think the elimination of the forum was way overboard.
If individuals are problematic then deal with individuals.
If you don't wish to participate in political dialogue then don't.
Somehow I suspect however that the idea of conservative views going unaddressed will be just too painful for some.  :)
Still, its better to make some attempt at rebuttal no matter how ineffective, than to try and silence the voices.
Parent - By RioCampo (***) Date 07-27-2009 18:04
I'd like to see the off topic room in either of those places. That would be the definition of off topic!!
Parent - By vagabond (***) Date 07-27-2009 22:34
Don't forget the Palimino Club or Little Darlings!!!!!!!  Bring back the off topic. . . . .I am definitely against it's removal.  Or maybe we should call it the Off Color Bar and Grill??? 
Parent - By Smooth Operator (***) Date 07-27-2009 22:54
against removal , against Dallas Wowboys, against Tony Homo , against Wowboy fans blaming Jessica Simpson for "distracting "Homo, against the President getting involved in a minor disturbing the peace incident, against high oil and gas prices, against people that are blowhard b.s.ers, against" gun control laws", against small time contractors who don't have the means to do a job and pay their bills and think it's OK to tie up other peoples time and money (raccoon welds ?)   PS. GO STEELERS IN THE HUNT FOR #7.
Parent - - By Revjsnizzle (**) Date 07-27-2009 15:27
Ouch 3.2....I always checked the other forums as well and offered insite as I thought I could, but have recieved emence help from all others in regards to all my posts in the past.  I realize that this is a W E L D I N G forum, but if you have ever worked on the shop floor, you know that welders like to talk about other stuff then just welding....I am alittle surprised there wasn't a "Babe" forum as well, tttt.  To each their own I guess, there are other sites for non welding related stuff.
Parent - - By Regmanager (**) Date 07-27-2009 16:41
Lawrence, Well thought out and very well written post. I completely agree 100%. Although I never visited OTF after reading it once, I believe there are enough web sites to express any opinion you desire. I agree that what was posted here does not belong on the AWS website. Stick to business and take your left handed humor and politics else where. Joe
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 07-27-2009 17:27
Lawrence's post was a definite asset to this thread.  I concur 100% with his sentiments. 

We all get passionate and opinionated about more than just our welding.  And occassionally we take it too personally when others do not see things the same way that we do.  Some have talked of tolerance which is well needed and appreciated when practiced. 

It has also been mentioned that if you don't want to participate you don't have to which is without a doubt wise counsel to some who may have been offended.

The biggest point to me though is the reputation of this site and the AWS.  They have an obligation to protect the organizations reputation.  Many of us may not see the OTBAG as something that would bother that reputation one way or another.  But for some reason, and I hope and pray it was a legitimate, honest evaluation not personal, they decided that particular part of this forum was not in their best interest and did not represent the official stands of the AWS in a way that gave a positive reflection of them and their membership.

There are people here who have the ability to make their own 'blog' or whatever the proper name would be which would allow those who wished to to gather and continue the types of discussions that were happening here.  I understand that it was nice for many to be able to go to one site and get advice, help others, and vent or share when needed.  But it is not the end of the world. 

I don't have a direct opinion as to rather I am 'for' or 'against'.  I would be 'against' and suggest it come back with possibly restricted access.  It would have a special registration separate from the general forum so no one got in the middle of the more passionate threads.  And as was suggested earlier, deal with the offenders.  But then who would the monitors be and how much are some going to scream when they get dealt with?  If it is available from this site it still represents the AWS.  And, scream about it being a money oriented organization all we want, to which I agree on some fronts, if they don't make money, they go out of business.  Then where are we and all the advances in the welding field that have been made through the years.  So who is going to pay them for the paid staff that must monitor the site that we access for free.  Yes, most of us are members and pay dues, but this site is available for us to pool our vast resources and help others as a free benefit.

There must be a way to do both.  But then there would still be those who would scream censorship.  Tolerance, compromise, patience, kindness.  These are all needed in any free expression of ideas and opinions.  Have we all put our best foot forward in these things?

I have more questions than I do answers so I will drop out of the discussion.  I hope it does not mean that many of you do follow through and stop posting here.  Your opinions, sage advice, experiences, knowledge and helpful attitudes have been very appreciated by me.  Don't take this action by AWS as a personal attack.  There are people who still need you here.  I am one.

Just my two tin pennies worth.  Thanks for the opportunity to express.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 07-27-2009 18:21

>So who is going to pay them for the paid staff that must monitor the site that we access for free.


To be honest, the moderators of this site are all volunteers, they don't get paid.
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 07-27-2009 19:52
Thank you for that info John.  I figured there must be someone who checked in on things while on payroll.  I know the committee people, you, Al, and so many others that post here are all just giving of their time to help others.  All of that is volunteer for sure and some of you put a lot of hours into it.  But I didn't know any AWS monitoring was volunteer as well.  Thanks again.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 07-27-2009 19:33
Nobody is arguing that there wasn't at least some action justified. At least none that I have read. This would maintain the Forum reputation and responsibility. The argument is the particular action chosen.
Something about baby and bath water, or flies with sledge hammers, I think.
Interesting though, I saw jokes in the joke thread that could easily be construed as mysogynistic. Not hearing much complaint about that.
If we are going to argue for the reputation of the site and for the concerns of its members, seems to me a sizable percentage have been overlooked in our indignation.
Not saying the forum folks did not consider this. Perhaps they did. If so, credit is due. But it seems overlooked by those who would defend the decision.
Would the joke thread have been enough to shut it down? I have my doubts.
Parent - - By drewp29 (**) Date 07-27-2009 18:00
Against.

Whereas I find the different areas of the forums to contain a wealth of welding related knowledge, and I have and will continue to use them to broaden my understanding of the art and science of welding, the OTBAG was always a welcome change to the monotony of some work days. Yes, there were some miscreants that tended to take threads in wrongs directions, but opinions are just that, opinions. They may not be politically correct, and may be way out of line, but they in no way expressed my opinion on topics just by being included in a thread I may have also posted in. I do not get offended by crude, rude, or outright distasteful comments - they are just words on a page.

Drew
Parent - - By alan domagala (**) Date 07-27-2009 20:14
against.
Parent - By preston davis (**) Date 07-27-2009 22:35
against
Parent - By Qcman099 Date 07-27-2009 22:38
I don't spend as much time here as I used to, but it seems the whole reason the OTBAG was put in place was so that the other Topics weren't overloaded with a bunch of useless chatter, arguments, name calling ect. Most sites I visit have a place that non-relevant (to some) info can be posted. I personally think that if someone is offended by the content here then DON'T READ IT! It's pretty simple. It's natural for people to disagree how they choose to handle it is what matters. If things get heated, let it get a little heated nothing wrong with a war of words, if threats are made either lock it, delete it, and ban the people involved for a set amount of time. If you have a re-accurring problem  with one person ban them for good...
Parent - - By FixaLinc (****) Date 07-28-2009 05:20
AGAINST, CENSORSHIP IS CENSORSHIP NO DOUBLE SPEAK FORKED TONGUE !  I AM FOR REMOVAL OF MANY NON WELDING BUSINESS AVATARS ! 
Parent - By johnnyh (***) Date 07-29-2009 21:59
It took me an hour to get my avatar cropped and sized right so I want to keep it.  Sorry if it offends.
Parent - - By NMWELDING (**) Date 07-29-2009 17:54
I`m against removal of it also.It was informative with news and events,and now and then had a harmless joke.
Parent - - By rfieldbuilds (**) Date 07-29-2009 23:28
By sending Ross a PM, you can gain access to the OTBAG. See Other posts in this section for more information.  I personally am glad to see the moderators listening to the masses. It really is a great venue to divert the NON-welding posts to. It keeps the welding related posts properly segregated (pun intended) and allows everyone interested to keep the forum engaging and not without the wit and ridgidity of a more strictly regulated stalag (spelling nazi correct me if I'm wrong).
Parent - By Ringo (***) Date 07-30-2009 15:05
Against,I like the way everyone expresses their opinion here.
Parent - - By SpellCheck (*) Date 08-03-2009 20:26
You got it right.
Parent - - By ANDY LARKINS (*) Date 08-10-2009 18:22
AGAINST
Up Topic AWS.org / Forum News & Help / Are you for or against removal of Off Topic Bar And Grill?
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