Air cooled SA200?

Date 08-01-2009 00:39

I have seen ONE of these. I met a guy about 5 years ago who had one to restore. I am not sure of the year but it is VERY old.

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 08-01-2009 02:46 Edited 08-01-2009 02:58

I have seen a few on eBay from time to time. Here is the manual: http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/products/navigator/OBSO_IMS/IM138C.pdf

This is an earlier version:
http://content.lincolnelectric.com//pdfs/products/navigator/im/IM119.pdf

By hillbilly (**)

Date 08-01-2009 13:42

Ebay and craigslist are the only places I've seen that version.

By FixaLinc (****)

Date 08-01-2009 20:56 Edited 08-01-2009 20:58

That is NOT a SA200 ! It is most likely a Lincoln "Lincwelder" DC-250-AS with Wisconsin VF4D air cooled engine about 25 hp. I've restored or fixed several of those they are common here for farmers or feedlots and work okay but not near the welder a SA200 is. No auxillary output on most of them. Some had hand crank and a few had electric start. I've converted some of the hand crank ones to electric start you have to change the flywheel out for one with a ring gear on it. IM-172-B manual on the obsolete Lincoln manuals page covers it.

http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/products/navigator/im/obsomenu.pdf

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By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 08-02-2009 03:34

You are right that this is not the same generator as a water cooled SA 200, but the manual I posted the link to does call this machine a "SA 200".

By FixaLinc (****)

Date 08-02-2009 04:19

Yeah smaller physical size on the generator but guess they made it in 200 amp also. The manual you posted looks like same generator. Lincoln also made a DC 180 with a 2 cylinder Wisconsin air cooled that I've only seen one of so far. That DC 250 is only one I've seen here with V4 Wisconsin but Airco made some too with a Wisconsin V4.

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By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 08-02-2009 05:39

When I was a kid I knew a guy who had a Lincoln with a 2 cylinder Wisconson, I don't know the amperage.

I have a 1959 Hobart Power/Weld, a 225 amp DC generator with AC aux power. It has a Wisconsin THD 2 cylinder. My Dad got it new, I think it was a new model back then.
The Hobart literature that came with it shows some other [earlier] models powered by Wisconsin 2 & 4 cylinder engines.
Back then the Wisconsin engines were the most common larger air cooled engines.

By FixaLinc (****)

Date 08-02-2009 18:36

Those Hobarts with THD or TJD Wisconsin were more popular than small Lincolns here and still see a few of them. I get to do the mags or carburetors on them sometimes and other Wisconsins. The 2 cylinder Wisconsins used same cylinder jugs and heads as off some of the V4 models just vertical though. Last time I saw a nice farmer owned Hobart with 2 cylinder Wisconsin it had been in barn most of it's life not used too much only on his place and still brought $1800 on his auction 2 years ago. Biggest problem I see with those Wisconsin 2 cylinder or V4 is they leak water in manifold flanges or exhaust locking them down or cracking a cylinder, parts are expensive and sometimes hard to get for those old engines now sometimes too costly to repair one. Spark plugs threads strip out of the aluminum heads too or they warp after years of use or if ran too hot. Well made engines in their day and will last a long time but have their problems being costly to fix if much wrong. That's why Ditch Witch and others quit using them going with other diesel engines because of cost and parts support now. There are parts catalogs & service downloads yet on the Wisconsin Motors site also manuals for flat head and TMD Continental engines. Unofficial Wisconsin engine site has specs and info on most all the engines they made. There is also a Wisconsin Engine Club yahoo group with lots of info too. I still have working Wisconsins on 3 or 4 things around here yet and parting out a V461 engine now. Wisconsin made larger V4 air cooled in 60 & 65 hp but they are well known for throwing rods and breaking cranks if too much load is put on crankshaft so maybe why never saw those on welders.

http://www.wisconsinmotors.com/

http://my.att.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=16&groupid=256080&ck=

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wisconsin_engine_club/

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 08-03-2009 02:07

The Hobart I have has always been indoors, pretty low hours and is nice. A friend has an old International skid loader with a Wisconsin, a rod cap came off. He was quoted $2500 to rebuild it, it might be better to sell the machine for parts.

By FixaLinc (****)

Date 08-04-2009 16:36

Dave, A few years ago most of those V4s could be rebuilt for under $1500 but with parts cost and labor most will cost more than that now the parts aren't cheap unless you shop around a lot. If he looks around can find a rebuilt ready to go for that price or a tad more or way less maybe off ebay, craigslist or auctions but the key thing is to be sure the crankshaft drive end is the same. I got a rebuilt military surplus MVG4D V4 still on the rebuilders crate off a county auction for $40 and they had bought it military surplus. It has the clutch and short stub shaft crank so won't fit skid steers or welders. Most of the V4 Wisconsins in welders, generators and skid loaders have a special tapered end on crankshaft. The Wisconsin engine spec number tells you what crank is in it and what the end looks like or measures. The Wisconsin factory can tell you the exact crank measurements from that spec number. A "M" in front of the V4 designation like MVF4D means military and many of those engines won't interchange for other things because the crankshaft is different and standard rebuild kits won't fit them they had different rods, rod & main bearings, crankshafts, and pistons & rings. The "D" on end means they had stellite hardened valves & seats. I see rebuilt gas engines now on Diesel Engine Trader too like VH4D for $2700.

http://www.dieselenginetrader.com/engines.cfm?ID=80

By DaveBoyer (*****)

Date 08-05-2009 03:45

His crankshaft has a gear on it that drives 2 pumps. He did get another engine, but the shaft end and block bolt holes are different:-(.
There is a posibility that His crank is bent or twisted from when the crank slamed the rod into the block after the cap came off. He says the journal looks OK, I havn't seen it. I have (2) VE4's, one with a keyed shaft & 1 with a clutch, both worn out, no help there. I will cut & paste Your post to Him.

By FixaLinc (****)

Date 08-05-2009 05:51

It's unreal how many different crankshafts with different ends and block hole patterns Wisconsin made special for many applications instead of just a standard drive end. I found that out when trying to find another engine for a guys welder had to just rebuild what he had. Was going to put a regular VH4D in but would have to machine a new drive hub and extend the hood and frame on trailer just not feasible to do. Seems you have to find another engine with exact same spec number on the tag to get crankshaft and holes to match up right. Some of those odd tapers would be hard to match up on them too with lots of machine work involved. Someone at Wisconsin Motors in engineering dept sent me a drawing of that crankshaft end for the Lincoln welder and I couldn't understand why they would have done such a thing when a coupler is still there involved between the armature and crankshaft. Have another VH4D for parts that is locked down but never tore into it yet to see why so don't know how much of it is any good. Know the heads are bad on it. Only bought it for the clutch, gas tank, hood & control panel. Oh yeah done robbed the flywheel and electric start off it too.

By FixaLinc (****)

Date 08-02-2009 04:45

Here it is on Craigslist

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/for/1255004427.html

Tag might have said SA200 but it's not comparable with a water cooled SA200 with Continental or other engines with larger generator and DC auxillary power. They showed a idler option and electric start for that DC250 with V4 but no auxillary power.