Poor Quality Chinese Welds on Bridge

By JohnJohn (**)

Date 08-05-2009 18:26

Posted the arrticle, see topic "Does this surprise anyone?". Glad to know others are picking up on this.

JohnJohn

By jwright650 (*****)

Date 08-05-2009 19:54 Edited 08-05-2009 19:59

This was discussed a few months to a year back in another thread also.

http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?tid=19671

By ravi theCobra (**)

Date 08-05-2009 21:22

. . . and all of us KNEW about it and none of us dunces DID anything about it . . . . .

By 803056

Date 08-05-2009 23:29

Just what did you have in mind?

I didn't realize you held that much sway with CalTran. I am happy to hear that you do carry some weight with the "Big Boys", now maybe we can do something other that wring our hands and complain to each other.

I believe CalTran is getting what they paid for. They went cheapo and they got cheapo. They bought a box of Cracker Jacks and now they're surprised that the prize inside isn't a diamond ring, but instead it's a cheap stick-on tattoo.

They, CalTran, get my "Dumb-Ass" award.

Since I don’t have an inside track to the “Big Boys”, I would appreciate it if you would pass my sentiments on to them. You can give them a copy of this if you like.

I bet the “Big Dummy” they send over will figure out a way to accept the substandard material and work under a “fit-for–service” argument. It wouldn’t look good on their resume if the “Big Boys” had to admit they screwed the dog. They’ll figure out a way to pay themselves a bonus as a retention fee so they won’t quit and seek greener pastures.

Wouldn’t be a disaster if they were to leave?

Best regards - Al

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-05-2009 23:46

I couldn't have said it better myself Al!!! ;) :) :)

BTW, Whoever is the one that is telling us how well connected they are, then tell the "Big Boys" to SIT ON IT AND ROTATE!!! ;( ;( ;(

Respectfully,
Henry

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 08-05-2009 23:46

Hello guys,
Nanjing posted on another topic regarding this issue but for another project, pretty sure it was the same company.
He gave up after 6 months of pulling his hair out.
Shiploads of items headed off to Britain full of cracks and there are now hundreds of British / European welders gouging and rewelding on site. There goes all the profit from having them built off shore in the first place.
Keep the bean counters out of the contract award process and see if the quality of work doesn't rise,
Regards,
Shane

By Milton Gravitt (***)

Date 08-05-2009 23:53

Tell it like it is Al.
M.G.

By kipman

Date 08-06-2009 12:41

Al,
I may be wrong, but it sounds to me like Ravi is speaking facetiously.

By eekpod

Date 08-06-2009 16:35

now that you reminded me, I do remember this issue awhile back. Oh well, just thought I'd pass it on.

By 803056

Date 08-07-2009 12:57

You really popped my balloon Kip. :(

I was hoping that my comments would find their way to upper echelons of CalTran.

Best regards - Al

By JohnJohn (**)

Date 08-07-2009 13:15

Actually, I feel much better knowing this is the guy responsible for fabricating bridge that thousands of my fellow, hardworking Americans will travel every day.

JohnJohn

Attachment: FFHW01OFMMD5MBM_MEDIUM.jpg (0B)

By G.S.Crisi (****)

Date 08-07-2009 14:20

Before becoming a university professor I've spent 20 years of my life managing large engineering projects in Brazil, and in Brazil things work like this:
When a large welded item (steel bridge, petrochemical tower, hydroelectric penstocks etc.) is going to be built, the owner appoints a project engineering firm to carry out the design. When the design is well advanced, the owner appoints a prefabricator to start prefabrication. When prefabrication is well advanced, the owner appoints an erection company to carry out erection at site.
Now, when the owner appoints the prefabricator, he also appoints an independent inspection firm to carry out inspection. "Independent" means that the firm isn't tied in any way to the prefabricator.
The inspectors follow each step of prefabrication. Related to welding, first thing they want to know is who are the welders who will do the job: are they qualified according to the required standard? Yes? Show me the certificates. No? the must be qualified before making even a centimeter long weld.
Second thing the inspectors want to know is the welding procedures that will be followed in construction: who has issued them? The project engineering firm? Have them been approved by the owner? Yes? Let me see his approval. Have them been qualified according to the required standards? Yes? Show me the certificates.
Once the welding job begins, it is followed step by step by the inspecting firm. They will visually inspect the welds in first place, approve the ND tests, check the PWHT charts etc. etc. In this way, possible problems related to weld quality are identified in the first stages of prefabrication and the corrective measures are taken.
This is valid also for the erection stage.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil

By Mikeqc1 (****)

Date 08-07-2009 18:47

Supervisor Patrick Lowrey, of the inspection firm MacTec Engineering and Consulting, went to China with 45 other inspectors in March 2008 and found that more than 65 percent of the welds did not meet safety requirements. Due to numerous complaints, Caltrans terminated the contract with MacTec and signed a new one with Caltrop Corp.

After consulting with experts from Lehigh University of Pennsylvania, Caltrans concluded that, despite cracks on the welds, the job done by ZPMC meets expectations, according to SFGate.
“It is true that we have some minor cracks in the steel components, but they won’t have any structural significance,” Ney said.

Thats seems to be the answer today, problems with quality ....change inspectors

By Mikeqc1 (****)

Date 08-07-2009 18:50

Cant do steel......................but cardboard Oh yeah

http://s3files.core77.com/blog/images/bridge_a.jpg

By Franz Date 08-08-2009 07:35

Without any desire to be annoying, this sounds a hell of a lot like the arguments I heard a few Decases back when it was more cost effective to manufacture and fabricate the steel of the World Trade Center in Japan than it was to make that steel in Bethleham Pa. Probably a lot of the younger fellows here don't remember that.

The world has been headed inthe same direction since the 1960s and it don't appear that it is going to reverse any time soon from what I see. Jobs are always going to go to the cheapest supplier and worker and if that worker is in Japan or China that's where the job will be done. The US has done a wonderful job of making the US worker cost effective, NOT. A lot of folks didn't seem to notice the world rebuilt from World War 2 by 1960 and being an American didn't make a worker one bit better than a man doing the same job for half the money at some other spot on the globe.

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 08-08-2009 09:42

Hello all,
This subject is very touchy (especially at the moment) because people do not like to see things fabricated overseas when it can be made in the country it is destined for.
However, economics show it is cheaper to be fabricated in asian countries and shipped to where it is required.
I worked recently on a US$4 billion Nickel Refinery - modules were built in the Phillipines.I have just finished on a AU$12.5 billion LNG project - modules were built in Thailand. I am due to start shortly on a AU$3 billion Iron Ore project where the modules will be made in Thailand.
The problems associated with poor quality work stems from insufficient expat supervision and that sits firmly in the laps of the bean counters.
The asian welders be they Phillipino, Malaysian, Korean, Thai or Chinese are just as good as anyone you will find in a first world country, however, it is the supervision that shows them what is and isn't acceptable.
On the US$4 billion Nickel Refinery project 50% was fabricated in the Philippines with full expat supervision in the module yards and the majority of work was perfectly acceptable. An international inspection agency was employed to look after the remaining 50% fabricated in Korea, Malaysia and the Philippines and the work was rubbish. In Korea they hired a Korean Inspector, in Malaysia they hire a Malaysian Inspector etc, etc.
We were getting glowing reports from these guys but when the tanks, vessels, piping etc arrived on site it was rubbish.
Obviously management weren't keen on spending the money for full time expat supervision but as I tried to explain to management a person with a strong welding background, preferably a CWI could just make random visits (I am pretty sure after spending a day roaming the workshop / yard I can identify whether they have the ability to produce quality work) but they weren't keen.
Wonder where those same people were when they had to explain to the client why we were spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on remedial work ???
China is a different story altogether - they seem very loath to use expat supervision. I have yet to get the full story from Nanjing but he was in the same yard where this bridge work was done - on his own with 40,000 employees and over 1000 welders.!!
I am heading for Thailand for 12 months full time supervision and I can guarantee there will be nothing leaving those yards that would not be perfectly acceptable in any country of the world.
Rant over,
Regards,
Shane

By 3.2 Inspector (***)

Date 08-10-2009 06:37

Exelent post there Shane.
What you describe is also my experience.

3.2

By JohnJohn (**)

Date 08-08-2009 13:05 Edited 08-08-2009 17:51

I may have to check the facts and could be wrong, but I think the raw steel for the Trade Center was purchased from Japan but fabricated here. Different shops fabricated the buildings components. The reason the fab was split up to smaller shops was of course cost, but the Port Authority felt that BSC and US Steel had colloborated in their bids because their final bid was way over their initial estimates. Also, the Port sensed collusion when it was suggested that the Port give both of them a tower. Incidently after it was all done, the cost was very close to the final bid. This information is from Men of Steel, a book written by Karl Koch III of Koch Erection, the steel erector for the project.

JohnJohn

By G.S.Crisi (****)

Date 08-10-2009 20:14

JohnJohn,
bids are always higher than the owner's first estimate. Has any of the frequentors of this Forum ever heard of a bid that was lower than the owner first estimate? Neither did I.
Giovanni S. Crisi

By JohnJohn (**)

Date 08-10-2009 20:41

True, but the PA brought USS and BSC in as the only bidders in the beginning because they felt that no one else was big enough to handle the job. The PA used the original Big Steel estimates for budgeting purposes, then were shocked later when the estimates went up. Matter of fact, the increase in steel cost put the project in jeopardy. This is the reason why Big Steel didn't get the Trade Center. Whether or not they tried to screw the PA nobody knows, but they lost the job because they didn't do a good enough job of explaining why their bids increased.

I am all for the job going to the lowest, QUALIFIED bidder. That is how I make my living. I don't like the fact that an infrastructure job is outsourced over cost when their are plenty of domsestic fab shops needing work, and tons of engineers that can apply sensible value engineering to lower a project's cost. I side with Al and Harry on this one. If it was a private project that's fine(but still wrong) but this is public money being spent. What's wrong with blind Patriotism when it keeps the folk at home employed? Maybe I'm just out of touch. I believe that globalism will be the eventual downfall of this country. We are lowering our standards while increasing those across the globe. All the while the fat cats get fatter while the rest of us are fighting for scraps. I will stop ranting now.

JohnJohn

By Mikeqc1 (****)

Date 08-10-2009 22:57

Whats funny is when they needed A huge order of bridge bearings welded up and ,Done right.....They came to the shop worked at.

And now in the PV world i see they have done the same thing (no China steel).
so based on my Observations they KNOW that they produce sub standard steel and steel products.

THEY DONT EVEN WANT THIER OWN JUNK BACK
MDK

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-08-2009 21:55

Franz!

I respectfully disagree with you because you fail to include some very important attributes that the American worker has over their so-called competition...

Currently, I do not have the time to explain them since I'm feeling rather ill as of this moment, and I'm electing to go rest as opposed to debating this topic with you, yet I'm sure someone else will chime in for me as I rest for the next hour or so.

Don't worry, I wil come back to this thread, and systematically explain myself as to why I disagree with you.

Respectfully,
Henry

By Franz Date 08-10-2009 01:11 Edited 08-10-2009 12:50

I'm waiting Henry. I sure as hell hope you haven't been taken down by becoming a prototype patient for Magic (racial comment removed) care.

I'll just kick back and enjoy some coffee till you get back.

>sorry, just thought the comment was inappropriate for the open forum-JW

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-10-2009 03:55 Edited 08-10-2009 04:55

So we have a comedian here!!!

It's simple... We do better, safer and less re-work than anyone else in the world... Plus our workers are far more educated, and skilled than their foreign counterparts so, if you were expecting a long, protracted debate on this topic - well I hate to disappoint you, and only hope that you don't spill your coffee on a location too close for comfort!!!

Respectfully,
Henry

By Mat

Date 08-10-2009 04:17 Edited 08-10-2009 04:50

To simplify everything...

You get what you pay for!

I ask though, why the hell would you get someone in China to work on parts for a bridge in North America? I'm not sure of the forum, but I recall a discussion about a certain crane collapse which resulted from a "poor welding technique" which was outsourced to an out of country company due to cost.

Call me insane. I'm not an American, but I am a Canadian. Anything involved with infrastructure should be sourced to local companies capable of the work and not outsourced to other countries.

I'm not racist, but when you get cheap c*nts coming into the country thinking that they're the sh*t willing to work away from their home town for cheap and undercutting those who actually live and work here in the country trying to get ahead and own their own homes eventually...well, they piss me off!

It doesn't matter though. Maybe I'm bitter because of the local unemployment crisis, I don't know. All I know is that outsourcing work to out of country companies isn't going to help the economy in the long run!

By Franz Date 08-10-2009 07:33

You know those are a couple interesting replies. As I recall, Canadians have been bichin about weldors being imported from the far east for a couple years now. Sure seems like your government sold you boys out from where I sit.

Henry, I sure wish I could agree with you, but it's 2009, not 1959. I been in the position of hirin and firin people from 1986 till I pulled the pin last year, and since I don't know where you're located I'll just have to guess you're working in a better labor market than I ever did. I've been watching dang near the exact opposite of your claim since 1955 and I gotta tell you I have a strong distaste for over half of the job aplicants who walked in the door since 86. The short list of questions I've heard from prospects, that comes to mind; What kind of company vehicle do I get, How many sick days do I get and how long do I have to work here before I can begin takin them, How many days vacation do I get, and can I get a week of paid vacation up front? There are probably at least 20 more, but I can't think of them right now.

Now, it might just be a bit presumptious of me, but I've always expected a tradesman to be able to read a ruler, and know the difference between ½" and 1/16". If you can't, don't spend my time. Your comment on rework, well I been doing business in NY, and I've paid a good number of people to rework their screwup on my time. NY has some wonderful labor laws. An employee in NY can deliberately destroy a machine and the State says he can't be fired for doing it.

I work to a silly concept, I sign the checks, I make the rules. I've seen many manufacturing based customers of mine move to offshore and I really can't blame them much. 2 pieces of metal don't give one damn what language the man welding them together speaks, and any company has a primary obligation to the owners who put the money to build and operate the company to generate a return on that investment. Everybody with an IQ higher than room temperature knows from time to time a company looses money on a job, but that cannot become the day upon day standard if you want to stay in business.

Your assertion that we have the best trained work force, my experience is a bit short of that. I've spent too damn much money sending people to schools they were required to attend for one manufacturer or another only to learn the people became total clowns the instant they arrived at the motel bar. My generation saw things a bit differently as I recall. Hell, I went to a lot of schools on my own time just to have more knowledge or skills when I was a young buck. One thing I learned damn early on was that I ain't too good to do any job, and that includes pickin up a broom if one needs to be used. I haven't seen that attitude in many people in a damn long time.

From this side of this screne my opinion is the US has become a damn poor labor force mostly due to the entitlement mentality that has been growing since 1968 when Johnson gave us the current welfare system. Now, I may sure have a bit of an attitude, cause I sure earned it listening to comediand purporting to be employees. My favorite to this day remains a fellow who informed me he needed more money because his wife was knocked up again. I asked him if he had a picture of ehr, and he didn't hesitate to whip it out of his billfold. I looked at the picture real good, and told him he best be looking for part time work after hours cause I sure hand't knocked her up and it wasn't my problem. He proved just dumb enough to quit, and my company saved money on insurance.

We've come to a wonderful state f affairs in my viewpoint, and there is a sufficiency of blame to go around. Workers generally are willing to do as little as possible in exchange for as much as possible, and that well may be human nature. Seems like most government jobs I ever came near had a single vendor/single sourse clause in them, and in the last 15 years I can't recall that clause ever being enforced by any contract administrator, most didn't even know what it meant. Inspection too has become a joke in way too many cases, there is always somebody who will sign off for a price. Regulations and the enforcment thereof such as OSHA and EPA are also killing US labor. No, I'm not advocating going back to pre OSHA and EPA, I'm advocating a higher level of sanity that will cut employer costs. Insurance, lets not even go there, I've taken to thinking Insurance is the only profitable business left in this country.

By 3.2 Inspector (***)

Date 08-10-2009 06:38

It's simple... We do better, safer and less re-work than anyone else in the world... Plus our workers are far more educated.

It looks like YOU are the comedian :)

3.2

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-10-2009 09:28 Edited 08-10-2009 10:08

Hi 3.2!!!

How is my favorite CLOWN??? You must be a glutten for punishment fro sure, and since I read your profile, I realized that I'm communicating with a CLOWN!!!
Is there anything else that's more than likely so incredibly laughable that you would like to confess in this thread???

3.2, or "Slim Shady" or whatever else that you want to be known as, I would like to ask you a simple question or two; Do you always feel like you are a period in a thousand page book??? Do you know the significance of that???

Franz, I understand where you are coming from in your viewpoint and opinion however, if you just want to focus on one city, state or region, then I still disagree with you as you haven't mentioned your experiences with skilled crafts personnel from other cities, states, or regions which most definitely have many differences with respect to their own attitudes, and behaviors in the workplace... Btw, what part of NY are you from, and what area's did you have these experiences???

All in all you seem to have a very pessimistic view based on what you have shared with me so far, and unless you are just focusing on one specific city, state, or region in this country then you are stereotyping the entire country's workforce based on your experiences in only one location... I believe as well as many others in here also, that you're formulating your opinions based on the viewpoint similar to a horse with blinders on!

There are some aspects of your perspective that I can certainly agree with you with respect to the current pool of applicants that seem to have that sense of entitlement which you mentioned but, you must also understand that not everyone in that pool has the unacceptable attitude you describe. There are many areas across this country where the newest crop of potential skilled crafts personnel whom are receiving as well as demonstrating competency in their skills training and therefore, disproving your observations and experiences with the quality of personnel based on their performance. There are also many excellent skilled crafts personnel since 1955 that are much better than you describe in your assessment of the American worker who has been contributing since 1955 as a part of the best workforce in the world since then also!!!

We may have been slipping as of late - our wide advantage we've had since the late fifties mainly because more youngsters were more interested in IT, or white collar careers, and the guidance counselors were pushing these types of careers on them by falsely describing the skilled trades as dirty, socially less prestigious, low paying, and limited in opportunities which resulted in a severe shortage of skilled labor to replace our aging pool of retiring crafts people... This is the real dilemma this country faces currently, and hopefully we will be able to bridge that gap soon enough!!! I have to apologize for not being able to continue this discussion/debate but, I'm not feeling well as of late and it's catching up with me.

One last point I would like to add is the fact that many of our armed forces - in fact, thousands upon thousands will be coming back into civilian life very soon, and they will be bringing skill sets unmatched in the rest of the world so, I see a whole bunch of hopeful replacements so to speak, replenishing the ranks of our skilled labor force!!! Please do not try to convince me that there are plenty of folks in the rest of the world very capable of maintaining, repairing our sophisticated military equipment like our jets, carriers, ships, subs, tanks, missiles, and all of the rest of our specialized military equipment as well as we do since the Fifties!!!

Right now, I have been awaken because of the intense nausea I'm experiencing from the Chemo-therapy I've been on lately, and I'm not in the present frame of mind to discuss this any further at this time however, I would like to continue this discussion/debate with you just as soon as I feel better.

In the mean time, you should know as well as anyone else that a defeatist attitude doesn't serve anyone especially yourself any good except that it's one of the main reasons why folks who accept it, tend to spiral down into an abyss of perpetual depression... I believe that you are a better person than that!!! However if you want to sell insurance, please don't let anyone of us stop you from fulfilling your aspirations!!! :) :) :) In fact, I keep getting solicitations from "Bankers Life" to consider selling insurance also!!! :) :) :) Until I feel better enough to debate this topic again, all the best to you!!! ;)

Respectfully,
Henry

By 3.2 Inspector (***)

Date 08-10-2009 09:36

wow...

Your post made it clear to me that you really think that Americans a superior to any other country when it comes to welding.
I will not take that illusion away from you.

3.2

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-10-2009 10:18 Edited 08-10-2009 11:47

Once a CLOWN, always a CLOWN!!! That is your message isn't it 3.2???

Just out of curiosity 3.2... Are you from Sweden and English is not your native language??? Is this the reason why you seem to always fail profusely in the proper interpretation of what I write in here? Or better yet, are you really that obtuse??? :) :) :) Hmmmmmm. ;)
In any event, there is one thing you are very good at... Making me laugh at your ridiculous comments!!! :) :) :)

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 08-10-2009 10:40

Henry,

"It's simple... We do better, safer and less re-work than anyone else in the world... Plus our workers are far more educated, and skilled than their foreign counterparts"

I think you might be taking patriotism a bit too far here.

We regularly have postings on here from welders in the US oilfields who think it is perfectly normal practice to weld in the rain and work anything up to 36 hours straight.
In Australia and New Zealand there is no industry where you are allowed to weld in the rain and working over 16 hours in any industry is illegal.

The Americans certainly make some things better than other countries (I ride a Harley Davidson) but I would rank the German, Japanese and Swedish workforces as just as good as the US. In fact I will go so far as state that any first world country would rank as equivalent.

I congratulate you on your patriotism but there is international participation on this forum and I personally do not think one country is better than another.
Regards,
Shane

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-10-2009 12:02 Edited 08-10-2009 12:09

"We regularly have postings on here from welders in the US oilfields who think it is perfectly normal practice to weld in the rain and work anything up to 36 hours straight.
In Australia and New Zealand there is no industry where you are allowed to weld in the rain and working over 16 hours in any industry is illegal."

C'mon Shane!!! Do you really believe that these welders in the Oil fields do not cover up their work while they're welding??? And do you really believe that someone is going to be welding 36 hours straight with no breaks in between??? Let's be real here!!!

"The Americans certainly make some things better than other countries (I ride a Harley Davidson) but I would rank the German, Japanese and Swedish workforces as just as good as the US. In fact I will go so far as state that any first world country would rank as equivalent." I agree with you with respect to the countries you listed, and even some you didn't but, when I said "Foreign" I meant to say countries that are not first world as you mention...

I will say this... All these countries that now can compete with the level of sophistication, and ingenuity that the US has always exhibited, owe much of their own advancements in quality and production ability to us!!! There's no denying that!!! In other words, we have always set the example in both quality & quantity, and everyone else has copied, and improved on what has always been our own original ideas and methods!!!

One more point I'd like to make here... Why is it that our US standards and Codes are used more so throughout the world than any other??? Please give me your opinion on this question because, I'd be interested to find out the perspective from folks who are out in the rest of the world who for the most part, work to our codes and standards!!!

Respectfully,
Henry

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 08-10-2009 12:47

Henry,
IMHO, the reason that American codes and standards are used more than any others is pretty basic. He who has the most toys makes the rules.
I personally favour the ASME codes/standards over any other countries.

The mentions I made of rain and extended working hours were from postings off this forum, I just used them as examples.
Regards,
Shane

By HgTX

Date 08-10-2009 16:27

Right. We're big, so we get to dominate on the code front. In 10 years, though, it might be Eurocode that dominates. Whoever puts in the most orders gets to have their spec as the default.

I've done some work with a European company whose workmanship and work ethic is easily as good as most of what I've seen in the US. It doesn't matter who learned what from whom 50 years ago, Henry, just what they can do NOW, and there are both good and bad workers in the US and abroad. Blind patriotism doesn't help anyone.

On the other hand, there is still "you get what you pay for". Sometimes it costs less to go foreign because some countries have a lower standard of living or a lower-valued currency, and it just plain costs less to pay someone over there a living wage than over here. Sometimes, though, it's because they cut corners or don't know what they're doing. The owner of the project may not be able to tell which situation they have at the time they're evaluating their bids, and sometimes in a "low-bid" situation they may not be able to do anything about it even if they can tell.

Hg

By Metarinka (****)

Date 08-10-2009 18:17

this is very true, often when the numbers come in the contractors will be able to bend over backwards and show and prove that they can build the product as specified. it isn't until half way through the project that it's appearant that certain management or quality systems or training aren't in place to build the project to the required standards.

In my experience at a former employer our division in china produced welds on par or sometimes superior to those in state plants. Part of this was due to capital expenditure as the chinese plants were newer and in some cases had better equipment.

cheap work is cheap work regardless of location.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-10-2009 22:18 Edited 08-10-2009 22:44

I may be someone that's blind with patriotism from your perspective but, I'M DARN WELL PROUD OF IT!!! WHAT'S YOUR EXCUSE???

Don't patronize me with your "Globalism" B*ll Sh*t!!! Remember that all of this crap is one of the main reasons why we're in such a financial mess in the first place!!!
REMEMBER NAFTA??? SURE!!! EVERYBODY CAN COME IN HERE TO THE USA AND SELL WHATEVER THEY WANT IN UNLIMITED AMOUNTS, MADE OF QUESTIONABLE MATERIALS, PRICED SO LOW THAT THERE'S NO WAY AN AMERICAN COMPANY CAN COMPETE WITH YET, WHEN WE TRY TO SELL OUR PRODUCTS OVER THERE, WHAT DO WE GET???
PROTECTIONISM - PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!! FREE TRADE IS NOT FAIR TRADE!!!

All of you that participate ni this forum need to remember this simple fact... Although the AMERICAN WELDING SOCIETY does welcome people from all parts of the globe to partake in it's activities, join as members, etc... This is still the AMERICAN WELDING SOCIETY!!! NOT THE INTERNATIONAL WELDING SOCIETY!!!

Btw, why is it that so many folks from different parts of the globe come here to this forum, or to this society to participate, to learn - then turn around afterwards, and bash the AMERICANS who basically shared our ingenuity for the rest of the world to take advantage of, only to have it thrown back at us as if it were garbage all of a sudden???

Why are there so many people participating here, not participating in their own country's forums??? Why do so many people come here to our shores to escape from the conditions that are reportedly from so many of you who disagree with me - so much better than our own??? Why don't they stay where they come from if they are so much better than us???

I can answer that question in a plain and simple manner...
It's because we - The United States of America IS THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD - HANDS DOWN!!! THAT"S WHY!!! WE MAY NOT BE PERFECT, BUT NEITHER IS ANYONE ELSE BY A LONG SHOT!!! IF YOU DON"T LIKE IT THEN - TO BAD!!!
I DON'T KISS ANYONE'S ASS - EVER!!! SO FORGET ABOUT TRYING TO CONVINCE ME TO START NOW!!!

WHEN ALL YOU SO-CALLED GLOBALISTS START TO LOSE YOUR JOBS, THEN WE'LL SEE WHAT OPINION YOU HAVE WHEN IT HAPPENS TO YOU!!! NOT IF IT HAPPENS TO YOU!!!
IF THE SITUATION WAS IN REVERSE WITH RESPECT TO THE AMOUNT OF WORK COMING HERE INSTEAD OF OVERSEAS, I WILL BET MY WEEKS PAY THAT EVERYONE IN HERE THAT FAVORS, OR ACCEPTS SO-CALLED GLOBALISM WOULD BE EXPRESSING THEMSELVES WITH SO-CALLED BLIND PATRIOTISM ALSO!!! IF YOU DENY THIS, THEN YOU'RE FULL OF IT!!!

Respectfully,
Henry

By Franz Date 08-11-2009 02:59

You know Hank, I'm beginning to understand your thinking, and I damn sure figure it may have gotten just a bit twisted by excessive breathing of recycled farts down there in that boat. I've noticed over the years a lot of you fellows who came out of the sealed sardine can seem to have been effectided by the confinement. So, let me put it this way, unwrap yourself out of the pile of cloth, and look all 360° with your eyes not squinting thru the tube. I spent 2½ years of my life in the lovely sand and clay of Southeast Asia working for the same outfit that confined you to the airconditioned tube, and came back to a hell of a lot different country from the one I left. It didn't take me very long after setting foot on soil at SeaTac to realize it either. This ONCE greatest country on Earth took one hell of a turn in 1968 by my research, and damn well lost ground every year after that.

The 1960s were the decade the American worker forgot the rest of the world's manufacturers had rebuilt from World War II and were now building product. America got all wound up in Equality even though any man who ever pulled on a wrench knows all workers ain't equal.

The 1970s found this once great nation being overrun with Baby Boomers waving their worthless Degrees and entrenching themselves into industry where they contributed little at great cost, further leading America down the slope. It also began the destruction of Public Education by the mass of spinless cowards who knew they could extend their Draft deferrment by becoming a Public School Teacher. Lets not forget the brilliant fabricated energy shortage. How many millions of gallons of fuel were spent bussing kids from one place they didn't learn to another place where they wouldn't learn?

The 80s gave America the first generation of pampered love trophys who had to be cherrished and could never be allowed to get their hands dirty. It was also the END of public Education that was worth the money it cost to heat the buildings. Unions moved from the industrial side of America to taking over the Government side,, where they could screw the pooch royally. On the good side, the microcomputer began arriving on desks across America which began the death spiral for "middle management" processing documents.

The 90s gave us the wonderful concept that everything could be made cleaner and mor eefficient if some bunch of dimwitts just passed another law. Those law passing geniuses managed to finally kill the concept of the working man having savings as well, after all why save now when you can buy it on sale and pay 18% a year for the loan you bought it with? Hey, while you're at it, invest your pension in an artificial financial concept backed by nothing but the recommendation of a kid who was delivering pizza last month.
The overall level of contract administration by the 90s was lower than whale crap. The hands on clowns doing the actual work for the Engineering Company with the contract couldn't begin to fathom Single Sourse/Single Vendor, let alone that you don't pour copncrete below 32° if yo can avoid it. Engineers adhered to the cover yer ass rule rather than doing a calculation.

By 2000 the America I came of age in was gone. Diplomas don't indicate education any more, they have become little more than a used movie ticket indicating you paid your money and joined the club. Elections are so damn corrupt they stink worse than a woodstove some punk pissed on, and the general public isn't one bit interested in correcting the problem. Hell they can't even figure out what the problem is.

The world's population has increased every year I've walked this rock spinning around the Sun, and the number of workers has decreased thanks to mechanization requiring less hands to make the same product. I don't see that changing unless we loose quite a few power plants in the near future, although I do recognize that possibility given the current fools running the show.

Just one more thing Hank, the flag I have specified to place atop my coffin is Red White and Blue and carrys 13 white stars. It represents the last Constitutional government on American soil. That's not an excuse Hank, it's a statement from a man who wasn't good enough to be employed by any large company that required a physical because he got his back busted doing the bidding of Lyndon B Johnson. I never asked for a damn thing, and I never took a VA penny Hank. What I have is paid for, and I earned every penny that paid for it.

One more thing Hank, if life was fair bras wouldn't need to come in different sizes. Life never was fair, and it never will be.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-11-2009 05:20

You are some piece of work!!!
You of all people are going to try and lecture me with your omnipotent blather???
Let's get this straight Franz... I know way better than you will ever that life isn't fair you friggin poor excuse for a human being!!!

You may be older than myself however, if you knew anything about me you would only then begin to understand where I've been which has been in places you dare not enter!!!
So take your sanctimonious horse manure and stick it where the sun don't shine!!!

So you're too good for VA benefits huh??? Keep saying that, and when you do get to the point when you do need them, then you'll realize that you're human just like the rest of us!
If you think for one minute that I was of the frame of mind thinking that life ought to be fair, then I've got a bridge to sell you and it aint in Brooklyn Chump!!!

By Franz Date 08-11-2009 06:50

Actually Hank, the Brooklin Bridge is owned by the Triboro Bridge & Tunnel Authority, and I owned a chunk of it back in the 70s.

Thank you for your concern relative to my sanctimony in your opinion. Rest assured I will far sooner drown in a ditch than go near VA for a damn thing. That leaves more "benefits" for you. Enjoy them.

By TimGary (****)

Date 08-11-2009 12:05

Well put Franz,
It's sad but so true.

Tim

By 3.2 Inspector (***)

Date 08-11-2009 07:25

..........excessive breathing of recycled farts down there in that boat.

It all makes sense now :)

Forgive me for saying this (it will be my last post to you before I put you on "ignore")
You seem to me as you are a very very bitter old man, I am also 100% sure now that you really think USA is the best country in the world, and not only in regards to welding and related trades.

I truely hope that someday you will wake up and face the reality of this world, anno 2009.
It is ALOT different from the day you decided to take a dive in the subs.

There is nothing wrong in being proud of your country of origin, so am I.

3.2

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-11-2009 15:34

Where are you from 3.2??? Do you work here in the US of A???

If you don't, or have never spent a substantial amount of time in the US, then you haven't a "friggin" clue as to what this country is really about!!!
If you cannot answer any of my questions then, you're the same person I thought of you as before you decided to post your ill informed response!!! However, I doubt that your answers will be consequential if at all as most of us have already come to expect. I'm not going to respond to your childish rants, or your immature opinions you may have formulated over time of me any longer with similar responses...

You do not have a clue as to the meaning of respect, so there is no reason to give you any especially since you have not once - shown any towards any of your peers in here at all, and I have the belief that if a person doesn't show any sort of courtesy, even if it is as minimal as possible, then that person doesn't deserve one sub-atomic particle of whatever type of respect whatsoever to any person that has consistently behaved in the manner you have since you started to participate as 3.2, and responds in the manner that you have shown in here since you decided to change your handle from 3.1 to 3.2...

I strongly believe that you need professional counseling based just on your responses which btw, 99.9% percent of them have been just that - responses only!!!
In fact, the only thing that is consistent with you is that you come in here to pick a fight with whomever you choose at any given time and forgive me Gerald for posting this but, I have to remind some folks in here with not remembering some of 3.2's previous behavior towards other members in here who by far contribute more to this forum than 3.2 could ever even come close to doing...

I would like to present this thread alone even though there are plenty more which prove the same regarding 3.2's behavior in here since he or she decide to start participating in the World's Greatest Welding Forum... this is a post started by Gerald who I've come to have a tremendous amount of respect since he decided to join, and contribute as well as participate in this forum... I consider him a dear friend as well as a colleague whom I have the utmost respect for!!!

I believe his post is relevant in showing that 3.2 needs to be revealed as nothing more than as someone looking to start trouble in here because of his own insecurities!!!
It has been my observation, and experience over the years with the people whom I've interacted with - and there have been many from all walks of life, that individuals who behave like 3.2 have some serious insecurity issues and they only get better once they admit to themselves that they have this problem... I for one, believe that this person needs to be counseled... Anywho, here's an example of 3.2's attitude... This one post was started from CWI555:

"Gentlemen,

I've had enough of these snide ****** taking potshots at people who have volunteered their time and expertise to help many in the welding and inspection world. Since AWS refuses to do anything about it, I can at least do something about it on my end. As have many of you good folks, I've spent a lot of time putting together information for some very good and intelligent people here, however; since 3.1 seems to be an AWS accepted persona and calls for his removal have been put aside, I will no longer allow myself to be found in acceptance of the same by association. My respect, regrets, and best wishes to all who have had a positive input in the forum.

Take care all.
Gerald "

Now thankfully, Gerald decided to continue with his participation here, and I for one am grateful that he decided to continue to contribute generously as he always had before he decided to start the thread I chose to demonstrate just who 3.2 really is... Here is the link to that thread:

http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?pid=113292;hl=

There are many more examples I could bring to everyone's attention regarding 3.2's behavior in this forum but, I need to go see a doctor today, and I cannot spend any more time on this issue... one thing I will no longer participate in is having a continuing "tit for tat" with this individual because my, life doesn't need to include this individual in it any longer... I realize that it is futile to continue communicating with this person any longer in the hopes that he might change his attitude. However, I will NOT leave this forum because of this person!!! Instead, I will no longer recognize this person from now on... The folks who make the decisions in this forum can do what they choose with this person, and that's fine with me, but I choose to ignore 3.2 from now on. I would recommend the same to the rest of the forum as this person thrives on picking an argument in order to satisfy his illusions of grandeur.

Franz, I was born as well as raised in the borough of Manhattan in New York City, and I lived in Queens for many years until I moved to New Jersey in the early nineties...
I will however, continue to pray for you so that you do not end up in that situation and btw, thanks for your consideration!!! ;)

Respectfully,
Henry

By ross

Date 08-11-2009 15:12

Henry,

This is the AMERICAN Welding Society, and I agree it's the greatest, but it probably wouldn't be what it is if not for contributions (that are too many to name) from our members, Sections, volunteers, and technical contributors from around the world. Same goes for the forum, in my opinion.

Ross

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-11-2009 16:09 Edited 08-11-2009 16:13

I agree with you wholeheartedly, and yet I do not consider insulting our country and what it stands for as contributing to this forum!!! However, I will not let comments from individuals go by idly when they consistently berate and insult my country!!! I for one, do not go around insulting their country so, why should they be allowed to insult mine without any consequence as opposed to you defending their behavior by using the excuse that they are contributing in here??? The only thing I notice is that these certain individuals who consistently insult, and berate this great country of ours - is that they contribute a total lack of respect towards this country in here - PLAIN and SIMPLE!!!

Since we are expressing our opinions here, my opinion is straightforward... If one doesn't like this country, then LEAVE!!!
If their country is so much better, then WHY ARE THEY HERE???
Finally, if they think they're contributing by lobbing insults towards my country, and believe that it doesn't warrant a response from me, then they're very much mistaken in what they expect as a response!!!

I will however, consider a different type of response from now on Ross, since you're more inclined on taking the side of these folks who come in here and consistently insult our country... From now on, I will respond to them to the best of my ability in the form of a Personal, Private Message if that satisfies your concern of me expressing my patriotism whether it be blind or not!!!

Respectfully,
Henry

By HgTX

Date 08-11-2009 20:05 Edited 08-11-2009 20:08

If you think that saying that some professionals in other countries can match U.S. quality constitutes "insulting", then there's no helping you.

Frothing at the mouth, standing on the shore and shaking your fist across the ocean, none of that is going to help with the downside of globalization.

Having an honest assessment of where we stand with respect to others, where we're better, where we're not and could stand improvement, where we're at a disadvantage for reasons we can't do anything about--that's the best we can do to improve our situation.

Hg (commie pinko terrorist who eats American babies)
.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-12-2009 02:21 Edited 08-12-2009 02:53

Well now, HG? I always thought you were a right wing conservative - who knew??? ;)
What kind of babies do you prefer??? I favor veal myself - from a calf. :) :) :)

Ohh, Ohh!!! My bad!!! Did you mean human babies??? FYI.. I dont' go there but since you revealed yourself, I strongly suggest that you turn yourself in to the appropriate authorities so that we can all feel safer with respect to the welfare of our "babies!!!"

Wait a minute! Now I get it... This is your way of acting out!!!

Seriously, if you think that your rather exaggerated description of what I'm doing as I express my own opinion as to how I feel about this 'Globalism" fiasco, then why don't you simply go and shut down CNN's Lou Dobbs Tonight while you're at it because, that's what you're basically saying!!! Btw, I only wish that I could be "Frothing at the mouth!!!" If you mean drooling then I must bow down to you because ,you must then have some special powers of observation - NOT!!!! FYI, as a result of the chemo-therapy, I suffer from what is commonly known as "Dry mouth" so, please don't patronize me with your blather!!! ;) Finally, I do give some credit where even if the person is only somewhat correct - there is due diligence for them... Allow me to elaborate if I may... When you described me as shaking my fist across the ocean, you were only some what correct...

However, since I promised Ross that I would "PM" folks that deserve to accurately understand where I'm coming from, I'll defer the rest of the "Due diligence you most definitely earned as a result of your response to my freedom of expression, so HG? You've got MAIL!!! :) :) :)

Henry

By G.S.Crisi (****)

Date 08-10-2009 20:25

Shane,
I thought that in Australia you followed British standards. Isn't that so?
Here in Brazil, in the mechanical, electrical and instrumentation engineering fields we follow almost exclusively American standards.
In the civil engineering field we follow our local ABNT standards, that are an adaptation of American standards to Brazilian conditions.
Giovanni S. Crisi

By G.S.Crisi (****)

Date 08-10-2009 20:19 Edited 08-10-2009 20:26

Your example isn't the best, Shane. Japanese Honda's and Yamaha's and Italian Ducati's and Aprilia's are better than Harley Davidson. Has Harley Davidson ever won a world motorcycle championship?
Giovanni S. Crisi

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 08-10-2009 22:35

YES THEY HAVE GIOVANNI!!!

A RICH RACING HERITAGE
In 1921 a motorcycle won a race with an average speed of more than 100 mph for the first time in history. That motorcycle was a Harley-Davidson. It wasn't the first time a Harley-Davidson set a record, broke through a performance barrier or raised the bar in racing. It would not be the last time, either.

For more than 100 years, Harley-Davidson has been synonymous with excellence in motorcycle racing, and those high expectations will pace the 2009 season as well. The Screamin' Eagle/Vance & Hines drag racing team will be defending the NHRA Full Throttle Pro Stock Motorcycle world championship won in 2008 by rider Eddie Krawiec aboard a Screamin' Eagle Harley-Davidson V-Rod. In the gritty world of AMA Grand National Twins flat track racing, the Screamin' Eagle factory team will be racing for a fourth consecutive national championship with rider Kenny Coolbeth, with the help from independent Harley-Davidson Wrecking Crew riders Joe Kopp, Bryan Smith and Jared Mees, each riding a Harley-Davidson XR750.

"Harley-Davidson motorcycles were raced almost from the very beginning of the company, first by independent owners, and then by an official racing department in 1914," said Bill Jackson, Manager of Harley-Davidson Archives. "Racing symbolized the ultimate in motorcycle challenge." Though Harley-Davidson was one of the first motorcycle manufacturers - building a bike in 1903 - that position was challenged by more than 150 other companies that entered the marketplace by 1911.

Racing, however, would quickly differentiate Harley-Davidson from the rest of the field. In fact, it would lay the groundwork for a century in which the company not only became the most-dominant motorcycle race team in history, but also the most respected manufacturer in the business.

WINNERS FROM THE START
An indication the company might dominate racing came early. In 1908, Walter Davidson, president and co-founder of Harley-Davidson, rode a stock single-cylinder machine to victory in the Federation of American Motorcyclist endurance and reliability contest held on the dirt roads of the Catskill Mountains of New York. Of the 65 competitors competing in a grueling two-day, 365-mile event, nobody performed as well as Davidson. He and his machine earned the only perfect score.

A few years later, Harley-Davidson added speed to the equation by setting a new record at the 1912 Bakersfield Road Race in California. Whether it was an endurance test through muddy back roads, or speed races on the wooden board tracks popular at the time, Harley-Davidson-supported racers - eventually known as the "Wrecking Crew" – were untouchable. "In racing, Harley-Davidson was the king and the winner's circle was its throne," said Jackson.

The onset of World War I suspended the racing schedule, but by the 1920s the company was back in the winner's circle. And not only did the "Wrecking Crew" win, but they shattered speed records as they did it. In 1921, the Harley-Davidson team became the first to win a motorcycle race at an average speed of more than 100 mph.

PETRALI - THE NAME MEANT VICTORY
Through the 20th century, several riders would uphold the tradition and pride of Harley-Davidson Racing, but the man who laid the groundwork for it all was Joe Petrali.
"Every sport has had its legendary heroes," said Jackson. "The sport of motorcycle racing had its own hero, Joe Petrali, a star whose championship performances have never been matched and not even approached."

In a six-year stretch between 1931 and 1936, Petrali amassed the most National points five times. In 1935, perhaps his best season, he won every race on the 13-stop National schedule. In 1937, Petrali set a speed record of 136.183 mph by piloting the 1937 Model E 61 cu. in. V-Twin Streamliner at Daytona Beach. He also won the National Hillclimb Championship eight years running, beginning in 1929.

THE DOMINANCE CONTINUES
Racing again was halted during World War II, but afterwards, even with Petrali gone and the team driving older, pre-war designed WR and WRTT models, Harley-Davidson left no doubt who would remain in charge. In 1947 alone, Harley-Davidson racers captured the National TT, National Miniature TT and Nationals at Richmond, Va., Springfield, Ill., and Milwaukee, Wis.

In 1948, Harley-Davidson won 19 of the 23 National events, including a dominant performance at Daytona in which seven of the top 10 finishers rode Harley-Davidson motorcycles. In 1949, Harley-Davidson won 19 out of 24 National races.

However, by 1952 even the powerful WR and WRTT model racers were showing their age against newer and lighter designs from Europe. Harley-Davidson quickly countered with the KR, a nearly clean-sheet design built on the experiences of the WR, but which placed the side-valve engine in a smaller, lighter and stronger package. For the next 17 years, the KR and KRTT models were rarely beaten. Indeed, from 1953 through 1969, the KR and KRTT would bring Harley-Davidson 13 victories at Daytona, America's most prestigious road race.

In the National points chase, KRs won on dirt as well. Factory rider Carroll Resweber won the National Championship four years running, from 1958 to 1961. Resweber's record string of championships held until Harley-Davidson's Scott Parker broke the mark with five straight championships between 1994 and 1999.

RACING OVERSEAS, AND THEN GOOD-BYE
Harley-Davidson and Walter Villa won the 250 World Championship in Europe from 1974 through 1976 aboard the RR-250 and followed up with the 350cc crown in 1977. Meanwhile in America, Harley-Davidson unfortunately had been forced to wind down its road racing efforts. After winning at Daytona in 1969, the road racing program struggled as the motorcycle manufacturer entered a period of financial difficulties and could no longer support a team. Though the company would continue to dominate dirt track, and would make a brief return to Daytona in the Battle of the Twins in 1983, Harley-Davidson effectively said goodbye to road racing in 1973. But it was just a matter of time before it returned.

THE REBIRTH OF A LEGENDARY TEAM
In 1994, Harley-Davidson returned to the top level of professional road racing with the VR 1000 Superbike Race Team. Despite memorable performances during its eight-year run, including a pole position in 1996 and podium finishes by Pascal Picotte in 1999, Harley-Davidson concluded in 2001 that the VR 1000 was at the end of its development cycle and was no longer competitive in the AMA Superbike series. While the program was ended following the 2001 season, the VR 1000 Superbike racing program helped Harley-Davidson develop and refine technologies such as liquid-cooling and electronic fuel injection. The program also led to the development Harley-Davidson's first production liquid-cooled motorcycle, the 2002 VRSCA V-Rod.

SCREAMIN' EAGLE® DRAG AND FLAT TRACK RACING TODAY
Harley-Davidson launched the Screamin' Eagle/Vance & Hines Pro Stock Motorcycle team in 2002 with rider GT Tonglet to compete in the NHRA Drag Racing Series, the top professional level of motorcycle drag racing. Harley-Davidson teamed with Vance & Hines Motorsports, winner of 23 NHRA titles, to develop a V-Twin engine that would be competitive with the four-cylinder engines prevalent in the Pro Stock Motorcycle class. During a first season devoted to development, the Screamin' Eagle V-Rod showed promise but did not qualify for an NHRA event. In 2003, Andrew Hines joined the team as a second full-time rider and a Screamin' Eagle/Vance & Hines V-Rod qualified for each of 15 events on the Pro Stock Motorcycle series and made the final round of eliminations at two events, the first time a Harley-Davidson had made a Pro Stock final since 1980.

Two seasons of hard work and perseverance paid off in 2004, when the Screamin' Eagle/Vance & Hines team won the NHRA Pro Stock Motorcycle world championship. During the season, 21-year-old Hines won three Pro Stock Motorcycle events, set the national Pro Stock Motorcycle E.T. record of 7.016 seconds, was the No. 1 qualifier seven times, and became the youngest professional champion in NHRA history. Hines and teammate Tonglet qualified for all 15 NHRA Pro Stock Motorcycle events, combined to advance to the final round of eliminations five times during the season, set 13 track E.T. or top-speed records, and faced each other in the final round of the K&N Filters Pro Bike Klash bonus event, which was won by Hines. It was the first NHRA title won by Harley-Davidson and the first won by a V-Twin-powered motorcycle.

The winning continued for the Screamin' Eagle/Vance & Hines team in 2005. In fact, it got better. Hines earned his second consecutive NHRA Pro Stock Motorcycle championship with the help of two victories in five final-round appearances. He was the low qualifier of the event 10 times and reset the national E.T. record twice. Tonglet turned out to be his biggest competitor. Tonglet earned two victories in three final rounds and was the points leader following seven events. Tonglet also earned two low qualifier awards and finished a career-best second in NHRA points.

Hines joined elite company in 2006. He not only won his third consecutive NHRA POWERade Pro Stock Motorcycle championship, but also he became just the third rider in NHRA history to earn three consecutive titles, joining his older brother Matt Hines and Angelle Sampey in that select group. Hines won three races in five final rounds to claim his third championship.

Hines fell short of winning the NHRA Pro Stock Motorcycle championship in 2007, but the season was record-breaking for him in other ways - he won a career-best five-of-seven final-round appearances and set a career-best elapsed time of 6.91. Eddie Krawiec joined the team in February - just in time for the March season opener in Gainesville, Fla. Krawiec earned a trip to the semifinals in that first race with the team. Krawiec then went on to finish in seventh place overall and made two final-round appearances during his inaugural NHRA Pro Stock Motorcycle season.

It was Krawiec who brought the NHRA Pro Stock Motorcycle championship back to Harley-Davidson in 2008. Krawiec qualified seventh for the five-race Pro Stock Motorcycle Countdown to One playoff, and then won 14 of 20 possible Countdown rounds to win the championship in the semi-final round of the final event of the season. He also holds the distinction of being only the second racer in NHRA history to earn a national title without winning a national event during that racing season. Krawiec defeated his teammate, Hines, to win the Ringers Glove Pro Bike Battle at Indianapolis, the fifth consecutive year a Screamin' Eagle/Vance & Hines rider has won that bonus event.

Harley-Davidson can do more than just win in the quarter-mile drags. The Harley-Davidson XR750 has dominated on the dirt flat tracks for a generation, in the hands of the Harley-Davidson factory team and of independent racers. In 2009 Harley-Davidson Screamin' Eagle factory team rider Kenny Coolbeth will be racing for a fourth consecutive AMA Grand National Twins series championship. If he prevails, Coolbeth will join Harley-Davidson riders Carroll Resweber (1958-61), Scott Parker (1994-1998) and Chris Carr (2001-2005) as the only riders to win four or more consecutive AMA Grand National championships. Coolbeth joined the Screamin' Eagle team in 2006 and won three races and finished on the podium at three more to take his first title. In 2007, Coolbeth won six times and finished in second place three times to notch another championship. Coolbeth won six of 13 races on the 2008 AMA Grand National Twins series, and finished on the podium at four other events to lock up the championship with two races left on the schedule.

In 2009 Harley-Davidson will also support three other top teams in the AMA Grand National Twins series. Known collectively as the Harley-Davidson Wrecking Crew, a historic reference to the Harley-Davidson flat-track teams that dominated the sport in the early 20th century, these dealer-owned teams include Latus Harley-Davidson/Screamin' Eagle with 2000 AMA Grand National champion Joe Kopp, Moroney's Harley-Davidson/Screamin' Eagle with rider Bryan Smith, and Blue Springs Harley-Davidson/Screamin' Eagle with rider Jared Mees.

Screamin' Eagle Performance Parts are inspired by and built in the spirit of the raw adrenaline and power of motorcycle racing. Screamin' Eagle Pro parts are specifically designed for race-use applications, while Screamin' Eagle parts offer street-use performance options for the Harley-Davidson motorcycle owner. That's HARLEY HISTORY!!!

I also liked the older Triumph bikes when they were made in England. ;)

Respectfully,
Henry