Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Stick Weld Silver?
- - By hardlec Date 03-30-2002 18:04
I have a small arc welder I use to make light-weight sculpture.

I am wondering if there is any way to stick-weld silver, nickle silver, copper, brass, etc. to the same metal.

I would guess that a stick could be nade of the made of the metal being welded, with a flux applied.

If this can work, there are a lot of jewlers who would be interested in a small arc welder to take to shows, etc. and not worry about transporting tanks, etc.
Parent - - By John T. (*) Date 04-01-2002 16:01
Would you like a procedure qualified for this application :)
Parent - By hardlec Date 04-02-2002 00:47
yes
Parent - - By Niekie3 (***) Date 04-01-2002 18:43
Are you talking about welding the components together, or do you want to use the arc welder to perform brazing?

Regards
Niekie
Parent - - By hardlec Date 04-02-2002 00:58
Welding would be ideal, as the seam would be less visable or invisable, and the joint would be stronger. I would also like to "build up" areas, as it is easier and stronget to build up the inside of a ring to "size" the ring smaller, instead of cutting out a small section and bending the whole thing. The circle is never really true.

Current practice is to braze, or silver-solder, the joint. This would work well enough. although I did not know you could braze with an arc welder.

It is easy to silver-solder, but it is getting harder to transport tanks, and most exhibition areas don't allow open flame, yet, people still come to flea markets and want repairs made, especially rings sized.
Parent - By Niekie3 (***) Date 04-02-2002 18:33
Using an arc welder for brazing certainly is not a commonly done thing as far as I know. I did however develop a procedure for joining Cu to Al using a combination of welding and brazing. As the Cu was such a big heat sink in the particular application, an Oxy-Acetylene torch could not do the job by itself. We therfore used the heat from the TIG torch to get the temperature of the material up to the required level while using the Oxy-Acetylene to melt the brazing material. For something small like rings and other jewelery this would obviously be impractical.

I merely asked the question because I could not quite understand where you are coming from. I think I now see. As far as I know, there are no "rods" for welding these materials (Silver alloys and even gold alloys) with the SMAW process. They can however be welded with GTAW or PAW.

In the case of Cu and its alloys, you can get SMAW electrodes, although I believe that they will be much too large for your purposes as they are generally made for applications where high heat inputs are required. Again, for fine work, if you want to try arc welding, it may be best to try GTAW.

As I am not a jeweler, the above info. is based on my judgement and could be a bit off the mark. If you find out anything differently, please let me know.

Regards
Niekie
Parent - By BP Maas (**) Date 04-04-2002 14:00
If you really want to join precious metal alloys with an electric arc, it is very possible, but it will require two small argon tanks. Since you want to be portable, the best machine I know of is a Thermal Arc Ultima 150, this is a plasma arc welder. It is the size of a small TIG welder. No flux will be required. I have welded thermo-couple wires .010 inch diameter together with this equipment, of many different alloys.
I have often wondered why goldsmiths' did not utilize something like this to repair and construct jewelry, I think maybe it's traditional.
One draw back to this concept is cost, $ 5,000 and up for equipment, much more than than a jewelers torch and tanks.
Best of luck with your endevour, Brad
Parent - By TimGary (****) Date 04-02-2002 21:40
There are a few different Manufactureres of Low Current Welding equipment that would probably be suitable for what you need. I've never used the equipment myself, I've just seen them advertised in the AWS Welding Journal.
One paticular manufacturer is:
Weldlogic Inc.
2550 Azurite Circle
Newbury Park, CA 91320
805-498-4004
www.weldlogic.com
They offer equipment capable of welding materials as thin as .001" and as thick as .125"
Parent - By dee (***) Date 04-02-2002 23:26
The idea of welding up a piece of jewlry is fresh. I am not sure it is practical and may even cause distortion or other problems, but it's intrigueing... Joints will take a lot more filing and polishing (a properly brazed joint should require only slightly more than cleaning stains and buffing out the color) but its a new technique worthy of investigation, and I like the concept.

The safety fire-code prohibition of an open flame may not, but should, apply in a "life-hazard" facility like a convention hall to an electric arc torch as well as an open flame. I can imagine a tiny bit of hot ember dropping and being picked up by a spectator's shoe or pant-leg and being carried, smouldering, along to some one-in-a-million, worst-case-scenario disaster... the reason for the ban on fire hazards is safety; to subvert the precaution even subtley would be, in my opinion, ill advised. Thousands of men, women, and children horribly lost their lives before these regulations were adopted; survivors and loved-ones would porbably agree that there is no place for any spark in large crowded buildings.

We are obliged to consider safety in it's proper place; first.

Doing repairs at alternative, less hazardous locations such as suitably equipped vans in a designated area would better fit the spirit of the safety regulation and is simply more responsible. THose hosting these events should be made aware of the need for such an accomondation and will do so if they agree the need is valid. I dont think any open heat source above around 450F should be considered appropriate for such "life-hazard" (as NJ calls it) use... even an electric "iron" at suitable brazing temperature becomes a fire hazard which I would not want with me in the same "life hazard" facility crowded with panic-prone, untrained, unpredictable "civilians". That established the tiny TIG (GTAW)torches advertised in AWS Journal are cheap enough and look like a very interesting tool with which to experiment. If you just want to be free of the hazard of transporting tanks and have a safe place it may work out if you can flux-coat your own filler and strike a stable arc without a shielding gas. Good luck with that great idea... BTW I would consider it even if I needed a small takn of inert gas.

Regards,
D
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Stick Weld Silver?

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill