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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / self arc regulation - semi automatic welding procedures
- - By hrezvany (*) Date 08-30-2009 13:12
Hi

I have a question regarding self arc regulation. Do we have self arc regulation for semi automatic welding procedures or not?
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 08-30-2009 16:24 Edited 08-30-2009 16:31
I'm not quite sure what you're referring to when you use the non-standard term "self arc regulation" hrezvany???
Could you please elaborate further by describing to us just exactly what you mean when you apply this term towards a "semi-automatic welding procedure." And please include as many specific details as possible so that we can to offer informed suggestions to your query."

By the way, "Weldcome To the World's Greatest Welding forum!!!" :) :) :)

We look forward to your response. ;)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 08-31-2009 02:34
If You are asking about arc length regulation in GMAW [MIG/MAG], yes it does regulate itself, to a point. Electrical resistance and the heating it causes  increases as wire stickout increases, so arc length changes some if the tip to work distance changes.
Parent - - By hrezvany (*) Date 08-31-2009 10:59
I read in cswip 3.1 book (chapter 12 MIG/MAG) that

"in semiautomatic welding the wire feed rate and arc length are controlled automatically but the travel speed and wire position are under manual control"
I don't understand this statement completely.

Also in advantages og MIG/MAG has been written:
"Automatic self regulation of the arc length"

in semiautomatic welding the position of the torch and subsequently position of the wire is controlled by operator and what's the effect of "self arc regulation in semiautomatic"
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 08-31-2009 13:26 Edited 08-31-2009 13:30
Semi auto does have arc regulation. Its Ohms law. If the arc, for whatever reason gets longer (say the welder pulls away), since volts are related to arc length, this means volts are going up. Ohms law, if volts go up, amps go down, given resistance stays the same, though it really doesn't, but lets keep it simple because I have to.
Amps are related to burn off rate. So, as the arc gets longer, volts go up, amps go down, the burn off rate will reduce causing  the wire to extend beyond the contact tip farther because it ain't melting as fast, wire extends farther, arc is reduced, volts go down until the original voltage is restored.
Arc regulation.
If you really want to understand GMAW welding purchase a copy of Alexander Lesnewich's definitive work on the subject. Its one of the earliest WRC bulletins and is still, after decades, the best resource on the subject.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 08-31-2009 15:25
I'm confused...

Assuming we are talking about GMAW/FCAW/SAW  semi-automatic processes.

CV (constant voltage) regulates the arc length.

Voltage increased at the power supply... increased "arc length"

Voltage decreased at the power supply....  reduced "arc length"

This is my understanding of how arc length is controlled.

If the operator were to pull the gun back "away" from the work... The arc length should remain relatively the same.. The "Stickout" will increase..  As the stickout increases there will be more resistance in the electrode wire, thus reducing amperage (current).

If the operator were to bring the gun closer to the work... The arc length would still remain relatively the same (constant voltage) but the current would increase, due to the reduced resistence in the electrode wire.

I'm not sure if we are saying the same thing or not.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 08-31-2009 15:43
Lawrence,
We are. In order for there to be an adjustment something has to happen for it to adjust even though the adjustment is very quick. I just arbitrarily chose the inconsistency of a welders hand. It could just as easily be the start of a previous bead which has been run on to, or some idiot crane operator bumping your piece with another.
Parent - - By hrezvany (*) Date 09-01-2009 05:35
thanks for your replies. I got it, and found that in my country usual GMAW power source aren't capable to self regulating of arc length. because the manufactured power source isn't as per original ones and perhaps they have omitted some of controller parts.
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 09-02-2009 03:10
The alternative to using a constant voltage power source is using a voltage sensing wire feeder. These units vary the wire feed speed based in the arc voltage to maintain the proper arc length. These can be used with a constant current power source like is used for SMAW [stick] welding.
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 09-01-2009 03:13
In MIG/MAG welding a constant voltage power suply is used. The arc length is determined by the voltage the machine is set at, and as the feeder feeds wire it melts off at a  distance from the work relative to the voltage. The position of the TORCH is controlled by the operator, and variations by the operator change the distance from the tip to the work, but as the wire is fed continuously, the actual arc length stays nearly constant. What varries is the ammount of wire sticking out of the tip to the point where it melts off. This is called "stickout".
Parent - By swsweld (****) Date 08-31-2009 02:50
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / self arc regulation - semi automatic welding procedures

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