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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Looking for table showing filler wire and ferrite numbers
- - By OBEWAN (***) Date 09-10-2009 12:12
Is there a lookup table somewhere that shows ferrite numbers for various filler wires?

Some people list ferrite number in their wire specs but most do not.

It takes a bit of work to estimate it using the diagrams.

I found it right away last week though but did not save the links.

OB
Parent - - By marswl Date 09-10-2009 23:20
Is it the chart that your are finding?
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 09-11-2009 11:38
Yes, that is similar to some of the charts I have seen.

What I am interested in is a basic statement of ferrite number for a base metal OR filler metal by itself.

I saw it just last week,  alloy x = Ferrite number X; alloy y = ferrite number y.

I am really only interested in a relative number comparison, to say tell a customer why we picked a 347 over a 321 for example.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 09-11-2009 12:51 Edited 09-11-2009 12:59
Obewan,
I think there are far more important critieria for deciding amongst SS alloys than ferrite number. Ferrite is really only an issue in that too low increases risk of hot cracking, too high increases risk in intermetallic precipitation. Within the acceptable range its almost a who cares. If you look at the diagram marswl provided 316, 347, and 308 are very close. Any greater variance is getting into alloys with entirely different applications and properties. For example 2209.
Add to this the fact that FN will be influenced by welding parameters (especially anything that involves varying cooling rate)so the numbers published are only ranges in themselves.
Also, the great majority of SS base metals are fully austenitic at room temp(obviously duplexes, FSS, and MSS and most PH's would be exceptions). They don't have to worry about hot cracking. They worry about hot forming, cold forming etc. An entirely different set of concerns. This besides the fact that their chemistry is purposely designed to ignore ferrite content(obvioulsy except for FSS, etc.), and that the cooling rates after solution annealing is not fast enough to lock in delta ferrite through the austenitic range anyhow. In order to lock in delta ferrite at those slow cooling rates the CrNi ratio would have to be quite high. Besides, what do the base metal guys even care about delta ferrite?
One more thing, take the 347/321 comparison for example. I'd be more concerned about 321 losing Ti across the arc if stabilization is the concern, that is if you can even find 321 on a regular basis, or at all(except maybe for GTAW). Or 347's penchant for hot cracking or knifeline attack, regardless of its ferrite.
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 09-11-2009 17:14
I was afraid it is more complicated than first blush.

One of the guys helping us on this project said that metallurgy is so complicated that by the time he retires he will be convinced he knows nothing.

It looks like they are not going to blame our weld process for our failures.

They have traced it to a raw material chemistry problem that impacts weldability.  Our customers staff of metallurgists is working hard to identify the bad actor elements and we may end up specifying a better raw material or even developing our own custom spec.  We are concerned about tramp elements that are not controlled by the exisiting AMS or ATSM specs.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 09-11-2009 18:39
It sounds like you are on the right track now. A couple of the other posts talked about tramps and thats probably where its at. I think especially if the 312 helped.
Parent - By OBEWAN (***) Date 09-11-2009 19:29
This is a different problem than the 312 with the plating, and we have crossed hot cracks off the fault tree.  But, if we can prevent hot cracks AND sensitization at the same time, we kill two birds with one stone.  That was what prompted me to post this thread.

We are having intergrainular cracking on a 430 weld.  It is believed to be stress corrosion cracking or galvanic caused by different phases.  The weld process has been cleared, but the material suppliers have not since we appear to have "good"/"bad" sets of suppliers.  We currently buy to AMS, but one side of the weld is a special 430Ti which probably helps.  We are considering switching to a better stabilized 430 or controlling tramp elements better.

The last two days have been like a AWS convention for me.  Things were a lot deeper than my normal day to day job!
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Looking for table showing filler wire and ferrite numbers

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