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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / In Theory: Would 410 be less likely to sensitize than 430?
- - By OBEWAN (***) Date 10-09-2009 16:36 Edited 10-09-2009 16:42
In theory:  would 410 stainless be less subject to sensitization when welding than 430 stainless?

I have read the theories that say that martensite ties up the carbon better than ferrite, so it would be martensitic vs. ferritic would it not?

I have read in weldability guidelines that they will both sensitize, but I am wondering which one is a better option if they both will work for our application and we want to minimize sensitization where PWHT is not possible.

We are planning an experiment that will compare the two (apples to apples) but I wanted to weigh in on opinions as well.
Parent - - By MBSims (****) Date 10-09-2009 18:45
I suppose I have some learning to do on sensitization of 400 series stainless steel.  I have never heard of sensitization (i.e. carbide precipitation/chromium depletion) being an issue in 4XX stainless.  If the concern is stress corrosion cracking, susceptibility is usually based on hardness level after welding or heat treatment.  Hardnesses greater than 28 HRC tend to be susceptible to SCC, while lower hardness levels are more resistant.
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 10-09-2009 18:55
I have seen in the published literature that 400's will sensitize.  And, we are having issues with embrittlement and corrosion induced cracking on our 430 welds.  We used ASTM A763 Practice X to test for weight loss after boiling in an acid bath.  The welded samples were sensitized and corroded whereas samples from the same unwelded material did not.
Parent - - By Weldconsultant (*) Date 10-26-2009 03:11
430 has much greater amount of Cr (16-18%) campared to 410 (11-13%), so 430 has more Cr that it can afford to loose without loosing corrosion protection.  Secondly, if on cooling (depending upon what it is welded to), the weld is primarily ferritic and is not hard as a martensitic weld, there will be less stress in the weld.  So overall, 430 should have much better SCC.

Girish
http://www.welding-consultant.com
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-26-2009 15:17 Edited 10-27-2009 03:25
The quick and dirty way to compare the sensitivity on one alloy over the other is to compare the carbon content and chrome content and the ratio of chrome to carbon.

The carbide formed is M23C4, sorry for not being able to show subscripts. The compound formula indicates the carbon atom will tie up about four atoms of chrome. A solution is to increase the chrome content (reduced weldability) or reduce the carbon content (reduced strength at temperature).

410  Carbon  0.15%    Chrome 12%  ratio Cr/C = 80

430  Carbon 0.12%   Chrome 17%   ratio Cr/C = 140

AISI 410 has more carbon and less chrome and the ratio of chrome to carbon of the 430 vs. 410 is nearly 2/1, so it (the 410) should be more prone to sensitization than the 430.

Curses, darn spell check!

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-26-2009 22:30
I like your explanation Al! It just makes sense to me and it incorporates the K.I.S.S. method of presenting the facts as they should be presented IMHO. ;) Oh yeah, don't worry about the spelling in case someone notices besides myself because none of us in here are perfect, and I know that besides myself, you're more than willing to admit that! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-27-2009 03:26
Thanks for the compliment Henry. I fixed the spelling for you.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 10-28-2009 17:20
I thought carbon was the overall controlling mechanism (hence the creation of low carbon filler material ex 304L).  My thought process would dictate that  increased carbon content would increase susceptibility to carbide formation regardless of Chrome content within the percentages present in stainless steel.

Correct me if I'm wrong here:

If one carbon atom will bond with 4 chrome atoms than the minimum required amount of chromium to achieve an isometric balance would be 4x C since carbon content is generally in the sub .2% range for stainless steels a minimum of 0.8% chrome would be needed. Far below the minimum 12% required to be considered Stainless steel IIRC.

Now my instinct is that increased chromium content would give more nucleation sites for potential carbide precipitation so that higher amounts of chrome would increase the likelihood of carbide precipitation, as logically 0% Chrome would never form chromium carbides and a mixtures of 99.9% chrome and .1%C would be extremely likely to.

OR

is the increased chrome content giving a "buffer" zone via dilution so that there would be more allowable carbides before the material dropped below the magical 12% chrome and became sensitized to oxidation? Also in this fashion would not the WRC diagram come into play as grain structure would have an overall impact on corrosion resistance and likelihood of carbide formation? hence the use of mis-matched filler material?

Am I completely crazy or does this make any sense.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-28-2009 18:20
Crazy no, but a little demented? Possibly! ;) You don't have to be crazy to be a welder, but it doesn't hurt!

You have to remember that the problem of sensitization is largely confined to the grain boundaries. The Chrome in the body of the grain is largely unaffected. In essence you end up with dissimilar metals once sensitization has occurred. You have an alloy similar to what you started with in the body of the grain, but free Iron and Chrome Carbides (M23C6) along the grain boundary. The corrosion is largely galvanic due to the dissimilar metals (Austenitic Stainless Steel in the grain and free Iron along the grain boundary) and the presence of an electrolyte (typically chlorides in water). No electrolyte, no corrosion equals no problem.

The corrosion is largely along the grain boundaries. Added to the problem is the presence of high residual stress, hence potential cracking problems that exposes fresh sensitized materials.

The problem can be mitigated by reducing Carbon as you noted, but at the expense of strength at higher temperatures.

The problem isn't an issue with low alloy steels where the Chrome is in solution with the Iron, i.e., substitutional solid solution. There is no doubt there are Chrome Carbides formed, but not in sufficient quantity to be an issue, after all we don't expect low alloy steels to be corrosion resistant. The fact that it corrodes in the presence of an electrolyte isn't that surprising to most people. The corrosion that does occur is largely general corrosion rather localized corrosion along the grain boundaries. In fact the general corrosion of carbon steel and low alloy steel will actually be at a slower rate than the corrosion along the sensitized grain boundaries of austenitic stainless steel. 

Best regards – Al
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 10-28-2009 19:40
it's slowly coming back to me now, It's been a while since I cracked open my books on Carbide precipitation.

In regards to chrome content, how does increased  content reduce the likelihood of sensitization. I'm trying to wrap my head around that concept. As the Iron becomes depleted of carbon in the HAZ and around the weld toes, I would think overall chrome content would not play a significant factor in reducing sensitization.  you mentioned the ratio between the two as a determinant to the susceptibility of carbide precipitation. 

I guess my line of thinking was that stabilization could only be achieved by a reduction in carbon or use of stabilizing elements such as columbium or titanium as in grades 347 and 321.  Not in the addition of chrome.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-28-2009 21:13 Edited 10-29-2009 03:39
Remember the context of the original question; which is more resistant to sensitization, type 410 or type 430 stainless steel? My response was not advocating increasing the Chrome content of the Stainless Steel to reduce the affects of sensitization. Excessive amounts of Chrome can cause other undesirable compounds to form that are just as bad as the Cr23C6 compounds under the proper conditions.

Carbon likes Chrome. That is Carbon has a greater affinity for Chrome than it does for Iron. As Carbon is added to Iron, the mechanical properties of the alloy are enhanced, i.e., the tensile strength and yield strength increases at the expense of ductility. As Chrome is introduced into the alloy mix the steel becomes harder and stronger, but still the ductility suffers. If the Chrome is increased to about 10, 11, or 12 percent the steel is classified as a high alloy steel with stain resisting properties (thank you Henry) and it is known as a Stainless Steel. When the Stainless Steel is held at temperature it is sensitized. Sensitization occurs when the Carbon and Chrome form a compound described as Cr23C6. The formula indicates that if you have 20 atoms of Carbon you will tie up about 76 atoms of Chrome thereby removing it (Chrome) from the substitutional solid solution alloying system of Iron and Chrome. If you increase the Carbon content, you have the potential to pull more Chrome out of the mix by forming more carbides, thereby decreasing the amount of Chrome contributing to the corrosion resistance.

As you point out, the Carbon has the potential to tie up about four atoms of Chrome for every Carbon atom present. The Chrome has a greater affinity for Carbon than the Iron atom, so even the Carbon in the Cementite can disassociate from the compound to form the Chrome Carbides (M23C6). Increasing the Carbon content drives the formation of Cr23C6. Interestingly the problem takes place in the HAZ where the conditions are ripe for sensitization to occur, the right temperature and sufficient time for the diffusion of Carbon to the grain boundaries of the HAZ. The filler metal is enriched with sufficient Chrome to ensure there is adequate Chrome to maintain the required levels (of Chrome) to maintain corrosion resistance even when Carbides are formed.

The introduction of stabilizers such as Columbium or Titanium, both of which have a greater affinity for the Carbon than does the Chrome will tie up the Carbon as Columbium or Titanium Carbides rather than Chromium Carbides, still having the formula of M23C6, thus leaving the free Chrome intact to provide corrosion resistance.

As you noted, the alternative to adding expensive stabilizers such as Columbium or Titanium is to reduce the Carbon content. Reducing the Carbon content is going to reduce the strength of the alloying system.

It is a balancing act between strength, corrosion resistance, and cost.

Best regards – Al
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-28-2009 21:27 Edited 10-28-2009 22:45
And to add to what Al just explained, one always has to remember which "fruit" one is cooking with so to speak... For instance what you say holds true for austenitic stainless steels does NOT always hold true for Ferritics, or for martensitics, nor precipitation hardening varieties of stainless steels... And don't even get me started with Duplex or super duplex varieties of Stainless Steel!!! Sure there are constants among all of the various types of stainless steels however the very nature of their crystal lattice arrangements have a whole bunch to do with determining the differences between the different type of stainless Steels... Please let me elaborate further if I may...

First off 12% is not the "magical number in the mnimum percentage of chromium necessary in order classify a steel alloy as a stainless steel. Rather, stainless steels are defined as iron based alloys containing relatively low carbon and a minimum of about 11% chromium (Some put the minimum at 10% and others at 12%) most commercial grades are higher than 11% chromium and contain up to .08% Carbon Some may go to .2% Carbon, or even to 1% Carbon.

Stainless steels are sometimes called stain resisting steels since the term stain less may suggest non staining. However, Stainless is a correct designation - it does not mean non staining in all envrironments, but less staining or less resistant to corrosive attack when compared with steels containing less than 11% chromium. When the total alloy content exceeds about 50%, the designation " Heat Resisting" is more applicable than "Stainless."

For increased corrosion resistance or for manufacturing requirements in specific applications, chromium may be increased and other elements such as nickel, or Molybdenum may be added as required. Okay so we know all that so I'll just briefly touch on history by referring to the main characters who each discovered their own versions of stainless steel...

.1) We have Harry Brearley, an English Metallurgist who in the early 1900's made a series of experimental steels with 6 to 16% chromium for gun barrels... In a discarded heap he observed that some barrels didn't rust compared to the rest in the pile. Note: I'm going to be brief here so, please do not expect a complete history in the early development of stainless steel.

2.)In 1905-06 Guillet of France was the first to produce and explore stainless steels metallurgically and mechanically in compositions falling within the three major classes. However, he did not discover the phenomenon of passivity - the remarkable resistance of stainless steels to most corrosive chemical solutions which would readily attack ordinary steels.

3.) In 1908-10 the research of Monnartz 9Germany) disclosed the stainlessness of stainless steel as a function of passivity... If any one person can be given the credit for the discovery of the stainless phenomenon of the steels described as stainless, it should be Monnartz! He noted the significance of the minimum of about 11% chromium, the need for low carbon, the fact that carbon could be stabilized, and the contribution of Molybdenum in enhancing corrosion resistance.

Concerning industrial usefullness or commercial applications, history records that in Germany (1909-1912) Strauss and Maurer promoted Austentic grades. In the USA (1911-1914) Becket and Dantsizen were involved with ferritic grades. In England (1913-1916) Brearley introduced cutlery steels (Type 420, Martensitic).

I can go on and on but, I'll just keep it brief enough so that most folks in here can easily understand the origins of stainless steels. ;)

Okay, So now we'll talk about how stainless steels "WORK!" In other words, it's function of chromium in passivity which is key!

Chromium (The KEY element in stainless steels - NOT carbon!) in excess of about 11% forms a tenacious, refractory oxide, protective film on any exposed layer... in other words, a corrosion barrier. This relatively impervious film is considered to be "self-healing, or self-restoring." It will if broken, repair itself spontaneously upon re-exposure to an oxidizing agent such as air or nitric acid.

Back to history briefly... During the century preceding WWI, extensive research with chromium alloy steels was conducted in Europe, England and the USA. Unfortunately many of the early metallurgists studied alloys of unfavorable compositions with chromium being to low or too high and more than likely due to difficulty in obtaining low carbon level alloys.

To make matters worse, early experiments were limited to exposure in sulphuric acid, completely overlooking the significance of resistance to attack by nitric acid. In other words, it took Monnartz to discover passivation by experimenting with nitric acid as well as air.

Passivity -the resistance to corrosive attack under specific conditions is enhanced by progressively increasing chromium over 11% and/or by the addition of other elements such as Nickel, Molybdenum and Copper. The degree of imperviousness of the oxide film in certain environments depends not only on the alloy composition, but also on the specific medium and the concentration and temperature of the medium.

While some may dispute that passivity actually results from the presence of chromium oxide film (herein called the CROX theory) nevertheless the concept does offer an exceptionally coonvenient working hypothesis and has been the commonly accepted explanation for over three quarters of a century, although there are some recent papers challenging the hypothesis to a cerain yet minimal extent which I will not get into at this time because we've got a lot of ground to cover here.

So this is part one in case I'm getting close to the time I need to eat my dinner so, I'll continue when I finish and rest up a bit... Yes eating does get me tired because I have to force myself to do so which isn't easy when you got all these chemicals in you that shouldn't be there in the first place, so see ya in a bit!!! ;) ;) ;)

Respectfully,
Henry  
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 10-29-2009 12:56
No one has addressed the other theory in my op question yet.  I have heard it said that martensite ties up more carbon than ferrite.  So if that is true, limiting carbon is one way to reduce carbide precipitation.  On our 430 welds that are experiencing failures due to sensitization issues, we have learned that welds made with two phase 430 (some martensite + ferrite) are not failing whereas single phase (ferrite only) 430 welds are.  That is why I am scratching on this theory to see which is more significant - martensite tying up more carbon than ferrite, or more chrome being present.
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 10-29-2009 16:46
I'll take a shot.
This is really an interesting line of thinking though.
I'm not sure 'ties up' is a good language to use.
If memory serves: And this is perhaps just a little Gedanken here. OK, a whole lot.
It is true that in an indivdual matrix cell of martensite there is more carbon than in an individual matrix cell of ferrite. And maybe C don't move as easily in room temp martensite as it does in ferrite. I don't know.
But if we are talking about long term relatively moderate temp evolutions I think the martensitee wants to be something else. Is more unstable than ferrite. So just as a guess, even though it may theoretically 'tie up' more carbon initially, I think it would want to give it up easier than ferrite.
OK, thats my pathetic attempt for the day. This type of stuff is way over the heads of anybody that frequents this room. And I believe that even though the exercise of resolving this would be a very fascinating pursuit, the utlimate conclusion will be so metallurgically complicated that 10 metallurgists would probably come up with 20 different opinions.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-29-2009 15:46
So here's part two.... I found this booklet from the seventies which for the most part, still holds true today, so enjoy the read!!! ;) I thin kyou all wil enjoy the descriptions used in the booklet on stainless steels. ;)

From the the Mckay book on welding Stainless steels...

"A GRAIN OF TRUTH... WHENCE COMETH GRAINS AND GRAIN BOUNDARIES???"

Before discussing the major classes of stainless steels and appropriate welding filler metals it would be prudent to review the mechanism of solidification and subsequent formation of grains and grain boundaries. When a liquid steel cools through the solidification temperature range peculiar to that particular grade of steel, the process of crystallization commences. Although individual atoms have great freedom (mobility) in the liquid state, once freezing starts they begin to orient themselves in a specific type of crystal lattice or arrangement.

Nucleation of crystals occurs simultaneously in various locations. The pattern in each location repeats itself. Crystal growth resemble pine tree formations, and is described as dendritic branching or dendrites. During the process of solidification the separate crystals, growing at various rates in different locations (each in their own orientation or plane of atoms) converge to form boundaries. The individual areas of uniform crystal structure are called grains and the boundary areas, grain boundaries. Grain size and shape are determined by the manner in which the branches from dendrites meet.

Grain boundaries represent junctions of differently oriented crystals or regions of disarray in the atomic arrangement. The atomic structure in converging grains at random orientation cannot match perfectly at their interfaces. Therefore between any grains there exists a transition layer where the atoms are not in their proper places with respect to either grain . Exposure to a chemical etching solution results in preferential attack in these vulnerable grain boundary locations. Thus the the metallurgist can prepare and etch a metallographic specimen from stainless steel base/parent metal or a weld deposit, his or her crystal ball for determining the intricacies of grain size, shape, structure, etc., is called a microscope and more recently, a Scanning Electron Microscope or SEM.

Subsequent to solidification, say after cooling to room temperature, grain growth - where larger grains grow at the expense of smaller ones - may occur during heating and cooling cycles. Explanation of this phenomenon lies in the realm of thermodynamics involving so called free energy at grain interfaces. Above the recrystallization temperature, grain growth occurs because grains have a tendency to decrease their surface energy. Large grains have smaller grain boudary area per unit volume hence smaller surface energy. Because larger grains grow at the expense of smaller ones, energy is conserved.

FERRITE, AUSTENITE, MARTENSITE & SOLID SOLUTIONS ... WHAT ARE THEY???

Since the three main classes of stainless steels are maned in accordance with their predominant metallurgical phases, i.e. Ferritic, Austenitic and Martensitic, it seems advisable to explain these phases before discussion each stainless steel class in further detail. an elementary knowledge of solid solutions in metals will also lead to a better understanding of stainless steels.  So, we'll start with Ferrite and Austenite...

Pure Iron freezes at 2802 degrees F in a crystal form called ferrite. It has a body centered cubic structure (BCC) with the basic cell containing one atom at each of eight corners and one atom in the middle. On cooling to 2552 F, the ferrite structure transforms into a modification called austenite, the unit cell of which is face centered cubic (FCC) containing one atom at each of eight corners and one atom on each face (none in the middle). At 1670 F, the austenite phase reverts to ferrite, the form stable at room temperature.

Although structurally identical, the ferrite forming at the higher temperature is designated delta ferrite while the ferrite forming at a lower temperature is called alpha ferrite. Austenite is often designated as the gamma phase. So BCC Delta ferrite will start off with nine atoms at 2802 F and then will turn to Austenite FCC upon cooling to 2552 F made up of 14 atoms, and finally upon even more cooling down to 1670 F revert back to 9 atoms and once again turn back into a BCC structure - only this time it is designated as alpha ferrite instead.

Okay so, we'll start with MARTENSITE FIRST:

In commercial steels, the addition of carbon and alloying elements such as chromium will modify the structure at room temperature in accordance with composition and thermal history. Plain carbon steels, even when cooled rapidly from the austenitizing temperature, develop ferrite and pearlite. Under the microscope at high magnification, pearlite can be identified as alternate platelets of ferrite and iron carbide. The latter is sometimes described as Fe3C or Cementite. The FCC structure of austenite is more compact than the BCC structure of ferrite. During the Austenite to ferrite transformation an expansion occurs. Shifting of the atomic layers and groups cna cause "Foreign" atoms to trap and jam, leading to great distortion. when alloy steels containing sufficient carbon and alloy content are cooled rapidly enough from the austenitizing temperature, the distorted structure - called martensite is formed, producing high strength and hardness.

Martensite can be described as a distorted arrangement of attoms having a body centered teragonal (BCT) unit structure. During fast cooling, the normal transformation from austenite to ferrite that would be expected in a low carbon steel is hindered by the presence of higher carbon and alloying elements and the lack of time to reach a condition of greater equilibrium. Since martensitic structures as-formed are hard and brittle, subsequent heat treatment (Tempering) is necessary to reduce their hardness and strength and increase their ductility to he level required  for most industrial applications.

SOLID SOLUTIONS:

We're all familiar with liquid solutions such as salt in water. If you add salt (the solute) to a cup of hot water (The solvent) the salt dissolves and forms a liquid solution. But if you then put the cup in the refrigerator and examine it several hours later you see a precipitate in the bottom, i.e. some of the salt has come out of the solution. You can say that the solubility of salt in water decreases with decreasing temperature....

The same type of thing occurs in steels. We call them solid solutions. For example, an alloy of iron with about 13% chromium consists of a random mixture of iron (Solvent) and chromium (Solute) atoms. Iron (Fe) and chromium (Cr) atoms are approximately the same size and about one in seven atoms will be Cr. This distribution of atoms in a crystal (grain) in which the atoms of the second element are evenly distributed in the parent crystal structure is known as a solid solution. Where the Cr atoms are to be found in exactly similar sites to the Fe atoms, the solid solution is known as substitutional.

When you add carbon (C) to the alloy, the C atoms - being smaller than the Fe or Cr atoms - distribute themselves in the gaps, or interstices between the other atoms, assuming C is under .1%. The C then has formed an interstitial solid solution. With c above about .1%, the C atoms in excess of the solubility limit may combine with Cr atoms to form Chromium Carbides.

Certain Interstices within the FCC structure of austenite are considerably more accommodating to C than those of the BCC structure of ferrite. Since the gaps between the atoms are larger in austenite than in ferrite, the solubility of C is greater in austenite but decreases abruptly when, with decreasing temperature, the austenite phase changes to ferrite or martensite. "Steels" are alloys of iron and carbon with modest quantities of manganese and silicon plus residuals - some which may be undesirable. Alloying elements such as chromium, nickle, molybdenum, etc., may be added for specific properties. Austenite in stainless steels is considered to be a solid solution of one or more elements in a FCC iron.

So now that we understand this better, lets look at briefly the standard classes of stainless steels...

Stainless steels are capable of meeting a wide range of final needs such as, corrosion resistance, strength at elevated temperatures, toughness at cryogenic temperatures, etc., and are selected for a broad range of applications. Designer need to be familiar with properties of various types available and should consider the advice of corrosion and welding engineers when specifying stainless steel grades for commercial service.

The three major classes of stainless steels that have been widely used in industrial application for over 75 (it says 50 in the booklet but I'm going to make it more current) are designated Martensitic (e.g. AISI 410), Ferritic (e.g. AISI 430) and Austenitic (e.g. AISI 304) - names derived from the predominant crystal structure or phase normally found at room temperature. A fourth class, the PH or Precipitation Hardening types (e.g. 17/4 PH)., has also come to prominence within the last 50 years or so. More recently, the Duplex, or Ferritic-Austenitic class (e.g. 2205 alloy).

This is the end of part two, so I'll be back with part 3 later in which I'll cover in greater detail the martensitic and ferritic classes of stainless steels!!! ;) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry

Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-30-2009 02:30 Edited 11-22-2009 09:47
PART III

Okay so let's start out with Martensitic class of stainless steels:

The martensitic class of stainless steels depend primarily on Cr from 11.5% to 18% as the major alloying element. This class and the ferritic stainless steel class share the AISI 400 numbering series. They are sometimes referred to as straight chromium grades. In contrast, Austenitic stainless steels are essentially chromium-nickel alloys; they are covered by the AISI 300 series for most standard compositions of wrought products. AISI 410, the principal alloy of the martensitic class, ranges 11.5 to 13.5% Cr. However, casting grade CA-6NM, provides higher strength, increased toughness, better weldability and greater corrosion resistance than the CA-15 (Type 410) casting grade.

Martensitic stainless steels exhibit magnetic properties similar to those of plain carbon steels and therefore, are also subject to arc blow in welding. Unlike mild steels, they are air hardening when allowed to cool rapidly from the austenitizing temperature range (1600-1850 F) where the austenite phase is predominant. Austenitizing temperature are reached in the heat affected zones of weldments and subsequent cooling occurs at rates sufficient to produce martensite. In the annealed condition martensitic stainless steels have basically a ferritic microstructure with dispersed chromium carbides.

Carbon and chromium in the martensitic stainless steels act in concert to prevent transformation of austenite to ferrite during rapid cooling. The result is the distorted BCT structure called martensite which is like a BCC but elongated in one direction. The heat affected zone on either side of a weldment will develop the hard, brittle martensite phase and, unless local preheating is practiced, it may develop cracks due to shrinkage stresses and hydrogen. The hardness of the HAZ depends primarily on the carbon content of the base metal. Increased hardness results in decreased toughness and more susceptibility to cracking. Although the most suitable preheat and interpass temperature will depend on carbon content, the mass of the joint, degree of restraint and the filler metal composition... Temperatures of 400 -600 F are commonly specified.

Compared with plain carbon steels, martensitic stainless steels have higher electrical resistance, lower thermal conductivity and, when rapidly cooled, a brittle structure. Preheating of the base/parent metal retards the rate of cooling, permitting the weld metal and Heat Affected Zones (HAZ) to cool at a slower and more uniform rate, thereby reducing shrinkage stresses. The slower cooling also allows more of the hydrogen to escape. Postweld heating at 1300-1400 degrees Fahrenheit, followed by controlled cooling at a rate of 50 degrees F per hour to 1100 F before air cooling, is also desirable to temper the martensitic structure in the weldment (reducing hardness and increasing ductility and corrosion resistance). Where possible, postweld heating should be done before the weldment cools down.

For optimal results, the weldment should not be allowed to cool down below the preheating temperature between passes or prior to postweld heating. Where 410NiMo filler metals (Somewhat less hardenable than 410) or austenitic filler metals such as 309 or 312 are used, preheating and postheating procedures may be less demanding than with 410 filler metals. In special circumstances austenitic grades are sometimes specified where the differences in composition and physical properties such as coefficient of of thermal expansion are acceptable for the application.

If preheating or postweld heating cannot be done or are impractical , austenitic filler metals such as 309 or 312 can be specified to give somewhat more assurance that cracking will be averted. The AISI 500 series (e.g. 502 with 5% Cr, .5% Mo and 505 with 9% Cr, 1% Mo) heat resisting steels, although not classed as stainless due to Cr being under 10-11% minimum, are nevertheless martensitic and require essentially the same tender loving care (TLC) as martensitic stainless steels like 410.

Martensitic steels, being lower in alloy content, are lower in cost than austenitic stainless steels. When suitably heat treated, they have adequate corrosion resistance in many environments and also offer high strength and good fatigue properties together with excellent wear, oxidation and erosion resistance. They are adaptable for moderately high temperature service because of good tensile and creep strength at moderately elevated temperatures. Creep strength is the slow deformation of a metal for long periods of time at elevated temperatures under stresses which are less than the yield point. Typical applications include type 403 for turbine blades (high velocity fluid flow). Thpe 410 for valve seat facing and types 420 and 431 for cutlery grades, razor blades and surgical instruments although recently, newer and better alloy "recipes" have replaced the use of most of these grades in the most extreme applications.

Here is a very good and concise .pdf file by the Specialty Steel Industry of North America named the "Stainless Steel Information Handbook" so, here's the file to view, and if you want to download it, you need to go to the next link after this one in order to fill in a quick survey in order to download it for free:

This one is for viewing only because the copy and print features are disabled:

http://www.ssina.com/view_a_file/weldingbook.pdf

This one connects you to the page where you only need to fill out the quick survey and it will then start the download where all features are available:

http://www.ssina.com/publications/welding.html

There are plenty more links where a "boat load' of rather good information regarding all types of stainless steels can be found. Simply go to the search feature and type in stainless steel,  and you should be able to find threads where I have included many of these links in here for your review. I'll also post some newer links if I can find them later on. :) :) :) One site that's really good is this one which has many other links inside to give you as much detail as one desires:

http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/phase-trans/2005/Stainless_steels/stainless.html

Here's one that may be of interest to OBEWAN in particular although everyone else is 'weldcome" to it as well:

http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/phase-trans/2003/dominique.html

Finally for now ;), this one is an excellent resource with respect to welding metallurgy as it covers as well as lists many articles covering many different applications:

http://www.msm.cam.ac.uk/phase-trans/2002/welding.1.html

Now, let's continue to cover Ferritic Stainless Steels:

Note that the AISI 400 series covers the ferritic as well as the martensitic stainless steels. As Cr content is increased beyond the 11.5 to 18% range of the martensitic class the predominant metallurgical structure is ferrite even at elevated temperatures. In some grade there is enough C and nitrogen (N) to result in some austenite at high temperatures and hence partial hardening on rapid cooling. However generally speaking, the ferritic stainless steels are relatively non-hardening.

At a Cr level of 16 or 17% the structure at room temperature could essentially be ferritic with relatively low C (e.g. 430 with .12% C Max.) or essentially martensitic with relatively high C (e.g. 431 with .20% C Max.) Indeed, even with Cr as low as 10.55 and c less than .08% together with addition of about .50 - .75% Ti, the structure is still predominantly ferritic. some of the newer so-called super ferritic grades produced by AOD (Argon-Oxygen Decarburization) and vacuum melting techniques with quite low C & N contents (about .02% C and .02% N) offer out standing resistance to stress corrosion cracking in chloride solutions.

Ferritic stainless steels, like carbon steels and martensitic stainless steels, are quite magnetic and thus subject to arc blow in welding. In some of the standard ferritic grades residual carbon and nitrogen can combine with chromium to form carbiddes and nitrides at grain boundaries. This causes chromium depletion and in some cases, intergranular corrosion although not to the extent experienced with austenitic stainless steels. Ferritic stainless steel products are usually annealed at the mill to make sure that any martensite present may be transformed to the softer structure of ferrite and dispersed chromium carbides. However, subsequent welding may produce small amounts of austenite in the heat affected zones which on cooling could transform to martensite thus reducing ductility, toughness and corrosion resistance. The only redeeming feature of the martensite thus formed is that it tends to inhibit ferrite grain coarsening.

Grain coarsening is a fact of life with ferritic stainless steels. Heating above about 1700 F causes enlargement of ferrite grains with consequent embrittlement due to the loss of ductility and toughness. Since there is no phase change (Ferrite doesn't change into austenite) there is no chance of grain refinement. Embrittlement can also occur when ferritic stainless steels are held within a temperature range of 750-1050 F (most crucially at 885 F). The effect increases with increased Cr content. However, heating to about 1100 F for a short time followed by a rapid cooling through the 1050-750 F range will reverse the condition. A third contributor to embrittlement is sigma phase, an intermetallic compound of Fe& Cr which originates in the grain boundaries. Given enough time in the damaging temperature range of 1000 to 1700F, particularly around 1200 F, sigma phase can extend completely through entire grains

Chi phase, another embrittling intermetallic compound. cna occur along with sigma phase when molybdenum is present. From the foregoing it is obvious that prolonged heating of ferritic stainless steels within the 700 01700 F range should be avoided. Welding heat input should be minimized and slow cooling form welding avoided. Despite this, preheating of 300-450 F is recommended for welding when thickness exceeds about 1/4 of an inch, since ductility of the base metal is improved in that temperature range - particularly in the heat affected zone which may contain some martensite.

Postweld heating or PWHT of the low chromium ferritic stainless steels at 1450 to 1550 f will assure a wholly ferritic structure and partially restore mechanical properties and corrosion resistance that may have been adversely affected by the welding temperatures. However, exposure within this temperature range will quickly produce embrittling sigma phase in the higher chromium alloys such as 444 or 26-1. To minimize distortion, cooling may be done in the furnace down to no lower than 1100 f but prolonged exposure in the 1050 - 750 F range should be avoided due to 885 brittleness.

Because of embrittlement problems the ferritic stainless steels for the most part are not considered readily weldable and are used primarily for nonstructural applications. They are recommended for resistance to chloride stress corrosion cracking, corrosion in the aqueous media, oxidation at high temperature and pitting and crevice corrosion in chloride media. Applications include automobile exhaust equipment, radiator tanks, catalytic reactors, culverts, dry fertilizer tanks and animal containment housings. Type 430 is used for decorative trim, nitric acid tanks, and annealing baskets. Type 442 is used for components requiring protection from scaling at high temperatures such as furnace parts, nozzles, combustion chambers.

Austenitic filler metals such as 309, 310 and 312 are often used where the application can reconcile the different corrosion resistant characteristics and the greater coefficients of linear expansion of the austenitic grades. Where postweld annealing at 1450 F is specified, the austenitic filler metal should be either a stabilized or low carbon grade to avoid carbide perciptation. Tomorrow, I'm going to post about the Austenitic class of stainless steels so you all can soak all of this in because this class is a whole bunch different than any of the first two classes we have already covered which are the Martensitic and the Ferritic classes of stainless steels.

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-30-2009 14:35
Nice job Henry.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 11-22-2009 10:56
I promised the Austenitic grades next so here goes:

Part IV
Austenitic Stainless Steels - The Main Event:

GENERAL COMMENTS:

The austenitic stainless steel 300 series filler metals ( with a Cr content ranging from about 15-32% and Ni content about 8-37%) are used in over 80% and in some regions of the world, over 90% of stainless steel applications for the simple reason that austenitic grades of stainless steels are much more weldable than martensitic, ferritic and precipitation hardening stainless grades.

They have good corrosion resistance and excellent strength at both low and high temperatures. Welded joints in 300 series steels are characterized by a high degree of toughness even in the as welded condition. In contrast with the 'straight chromium" martensitic and ferritic classes, the austenitic class contains nickel as a major alloying element e.g. Type 304 with 19% Cr, 9% Ni, 1.5% Mn.

In the AISI 200 series, manganese is increased to replace some of hte nickel on the basis of about 2Mn for 1Ni ,and Nitrogen (N) is added up to about .25%. The effect of Ni at the levels used in austenitic stainless steels ( In many common grades 10-20% Ni along with about 20-25% Cr and carbon levels normally less than .25%) is to suppress the transformation of austenite - making it so sluggish that the austenite phase is stable even at room temperature and below.

Because these steels are primarily austenitic, they are essentially non-magnetic and not subject to arc blow in welding. Magnetic characteristics of austenitic stainless steel weld metals will actually vary from non-magnetic as in fully austenitic types 310, 320 and 330 to noticeably magnetic as in type 312, which contains more than 25% ferrite - the phase responsible for magnetic characteristics.

Most common austenitic stainless steels such as 308(L), 309(L), 316(L) and 347 are slightly magnetic due to the presence of some ferrite. Although fully annealed austenitic stainless steels are non-magnetic, some degree of magnetism can be induced by subsequent cold working of lower alloyed grades such as type 304...

Now the pain medicine is really sarting to kick in with greater intensity, so I think i'll continue with this part later when I'm more coherent... I apologize for the interruption, and will finish this ASAP!!! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / In Theory: Would 410 be less likely to sensitize than 430?

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