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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Aluminum wire feed issue
- - By scooter Date 10-15-2009 21:16
I am expeiencing feed issues with the 5556,1/16" wire. I am using teflon liner but it seems to build up with a "steel wool" like aluminum slivers. Due to the cast in the wire I am having to use a wire straightner. I have tried wire wipes with little or no change, is this wire just so stiff that as it is being worked it is flaking? What can be done?
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-15-2009 23:04
May I ask what type of drive rolls are you using? And could youdescribe in detail how your configuration is set up because we cannot see what your set up looks like and need much more infor in order to helpyou than what you're giving us.

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By scooter Date 10-16-2009 00:27
I am useing "U" groove, steel drives. I am having some made from Delrin, as to eliminate any contact with scratching surfaces. I am also using the Miller invission, M 60 drive unit ( I believe ). The wire is on a 16 lb. spool located over the top with the wire coming off the spool straight down into the drive unit on a 12 foot boom. I also was in the navy, Groton to be exact.
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-16-2009 01:12 Edited 10-16-2009 02:40
First and foremost... "Weldcome" to "The Worlds' Greatest Welding Forum' Scooter!!! S oyou were in Rotten Groton also huh??? I was there when we started to build the first three Trident Submarines as well as one quite a few 688 boats (Los Angeles class Fast attack Submarines for those of you who unaware of the lingo) back in the late seventies, early eighties so it's been quite some time for me and I've heard the place has changed tremendously since those days! ;) :) :)

Well, that does tell me a bit more to visualize so, let's begin with the drive rolls... How many are you using? And of critical importance, have you checked the grooves of the rolls for alignment in the clamped position? In other words like Superflux alluded to, what you need to do is to disconnect the gun from the drive roll assembly temporarily just to see through the opening where the gun used to be whether or not the grooves are aligned when clamped down as if you had wire running through them - CAPECHE???

If they aren't aligned then, you need to make the adjustments necessary and you should be able to find the directions on how to accomplish this within the owner's manual. ;) the other thing you want to check also is to make sure your wire guides are also in alignment with the grooves of you drive rolls also, and I'm talking about both from the guide that is before the wire meets the drive rolls and  where the conduit that's on the gun or gun adapter meets the wire as it goes past the drive rolls to enter the gun... These ares need to be checked periodically and they are not especially over a long period of time where a significant amount of wire and of different types are used in order to ensure smooth wire feeding to the business end of the gun... Let us know if that helped solve your problem. ;)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-24-2009 22:31
You mean Gales Ferry!!! I mean that's where the Submarine base is actually located, and then I heard that it's now considered part of Groton, CT when I went to visit a few years ago... Now Electric Boat is in the City of Groton, CT... Another "Bubble head" in the forum!!!!! Well then, "WELDCOME TO THE WORLD'S GREATEST WELDING FORUM" Scooter!!! :) :) :)
Glad to have you aboard!!! ;) ;) ;)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 10-16-2009 00:04
Hello scooter, as Henry asked of you, what type and size of feed rolls are you using? Speaking of "steel wool" like slivers might indicate that you might be running U-groove drive rolls that are sized for .045' wire instead of 1/16". In a case like that, the groove is undersized and will shave the edges of the wire at their point of contact on both sides and on the top and bottom of the wire as it is being driven through them. So give us all a little bit more information and you'll likely get some very helpful and accurate information to help you correct the issue. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By scooter Date 10-16-2009 00:30
No, they are 1/16" U groove drives.I have even instaled wire wipe just prior to the wire entering the liner? I have made a drawing but do not know how to show it?
Parent - By Superflux (****) Date 10-16-2009 00:35
Is the gun close enough to the rollers and or properly aligned? Maybe something bent skiving off slivers B4 it enters the liner.
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 10-16-2009 01:40
Hello again scooter, you may wish to check your roll alignment. There is a possibility that the top roll might be slightly off center to the bottom roll which would create a similar shearing of the edges of the wire. I don't know which particular feeder brand you have, but likely the operator/owners manual will have instructions on how to adjust the rolls and properly align them so that they are correctly oriented with one another and also with the guides on either side of them. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By Superflux (****) Date 10-16-2009 03:37
[deleted]
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 10-16-2009 03:40
Very good point. Allan
Parent - - By Milton Gravitt (***) Date 10-16-2009 18:47
You know scooter you can have the rollers to tight and it will cause the same problem and some of the shavings may have stop-up the linner.

                        M.G.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-17-2009 01:30 Edited 10-17-2009 01:36
Also, the wire guides on the feeder itself located just before the drive rolls as well as the gun adapter if you have one can have too small of a diameter for the 1/16 diameter wire being used or, the ends of these guides may have been worn if stainless or another type of very hard wire was previously run through them for a long period of time creating jagged geometries where the wire could possibly rub on resulting in shaving off some of the Aluminum so, you might want to check those pathways too!!! ;)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 10-23-2009 09:51
Despite the posts made here I want to chime in and tell Scooter.....making some custom drive rollers out of delrin is actually a smart idea because of its durability characteristics, grip and inability to damage the wire.  You might have a business in your future regarding some certain expensive push-pull MIG rigs in that regard.   Chances of that solving your problem may be slim....in my experience the issues you are having usually are related to misalignment and WEAR in the feed system as you have already been told. Then again I am not a wire feed guru so take what I say with some salt and go on.
Best regards
Tommy
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 10-23-2009 09:54
CHEERS Henry!!!!!!
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 10-23-2009 12:38
I don't know Tommy, not denying your experience, not at all, but as I was reading this thread I was thinking push pull. Seems to me if conditions aren't just right one would have a tendency to tighten the drive roll down too much and this can cause slivers, especially with softer Al and U grooves. Curviture of the lead, variance in the contact tip diameter could aggravate.
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 10-24-2009 06:21
your right     

I was just thinking along the lines of miss aligned or poorly tracking/mating wheels....any hard/metal guides in the system might cause some abrasion if they are damaged.    Speaking of  push pull ...... I like cobramatics but they take a lot of maintenance in the gun drive parts it seems...that's where we would break or wad the wire most of the time....I remember seeing aluminum dust and sometimes slivers (no grinding going on) in those guns when I had to take them apart.  
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Aluminum wire feed issue

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