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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / What the heck is wrong with my machine!!!!
- - By ibeweldingsum (***) Date 10-20-2009 05:44 Edited 10-20-2009 05:48
I went and took a weld test yesterday and my machine just would not carry a puddle for nuthin. It was like it was trying to spread bubble gum no dig at all and it was alot colder than usual too. I was taking a 6in 6G test on carbon pipe downhand, with 5p+ 1/8 in bead, and 5/32 7010 HYP. hot pass, filler, and cap. Man i trapped slag cold lapped the cap sum and generaly screwed the peverbial pooch. It was very embaresing(caint spell )  What the heck happened? I checked the OCV's and they are set at 93 Heck I even made sure I didn't have the leads hooked up backwards. It's got me bumfuzzeled. Oh yeah! It's a '94 classic II lincoln no remote hooked up, and it seemed to me my grinders where running faster than usual. Any ideas what is wrong? It has been 6 mo. since I've done any real welding with it. I start it regular and there isn't any dirt dobbers nests and the like.
Parent - - By Regmanager (**) Date 10-20-2009 12:20
When you checked your OCV did you check to see if the polarity was correct on the output studs? Make sure your red lead on your meter is on the positive outpost and the meter doesn't show a minus sign. Second, you say it sat up for awhile. it's possible your armature has glazed over and you aren't getting full output to your weld leads. Third, since it sat up I would check for a stuck brush. Very common for mice to get into the generator and do their business on your brushes and stick them in the holders. If you think its running too high put a meter in the 110 plugs and see what the voltage is at high idle. It should read around 120. Try these things first. Good luck. Joe
Parent - - By up-ten (***) Date 10-20-2009 15:55
Whaaat?  Mice doing their business on brushes? That's a new one by me Regmanager, I don't doubt it, just never heard of that.
Parent - - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 10-20-2009 16:13
Try a Vantage !!
Parent - By up-ten (***) Date 10-20-2009 19:01
Heck, buy a Vantage!
Parent - By FixaLinc (****) Date 10-20-2009 19:26
Well now they have BIG RED 500 too.  Is is just a all steel economy Vantage?
Parent - By ibeweldingsum (***) Date 10-20-2009 21:07
You know cactus if I had the money I think I would buy a vantage. I sure am tired of workin on my pipeliner LOL!!
Parent - - By Smooth Operator (***) Date 10-20-2009 23:31
Cactus, What? Buy a Vantage, some guys from OK. said they use them for boat anchors,I thought this guy needed a welder to pass a pipe test not go boating. PS. GO STEELERS ON THE HUNT FOR #7.
Parent - - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 10-20-2009 23:49
Yeah I've used mine to weld together a few Boat anchors too !  I usually weld a couple of Millers together but sometimes I will throw in an Old SA200. Mostly use the Millers when building Anchors. They seem to sink better. That is what you meant right ? They use a Vantage to build boat Anchors ?
Parent - - By okwelder82 (***) Date 10-21-2009 00:36
What was your welder of choice before the Vantage came out Cactus?
Parent - - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 10-21-2009 00:55
AAHHHH the real question is, WAS there a real welder before the Vantage ?
Parent - By 52lincoln (***) Date 10-21-2009 01:03
lol!!i bet it was a 200
Parent - By JohnJohn (**) Date 10-21-2009 01:23
SA-250
Parent - - By okwelder82 (***) Date 10-21-2009 14:28
Ok..... Let me rephrase the question. What kind of machine did you have on your truck before the Vantage came out. You said yourself you have been doing this for 20 some odd years and the Vantage hasnt been around that long so you must have thought some other machine qualified as a "Real Welder"
Parent - By Cactusthewelder (*****) Date 10-21-2009 21:36
I ran a SA-250 And SOMETIMES I would take two peices of 1/2 inch Keystock and rub them together real fast and I would use sort of a friction stir method
Parent - By EVWELDER (**) Date 10-21-2009 17:43
Hey smooth operator I am a steelers fan too go STEELERS! As far as the vantage goes I have a vantage 500 and I wouldn't trade it for anything!
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 10-21-2009 00:26
Pounding on a deceased pony. :-) LOL

jrw159
Parent - By TRC (***) Date 10-24-2009 17:18
By what Matt is discribing it IS a Vantage !@#$%^
Parent - By KSellon (****) Date 10-22-2009 20:52
happens all th etime--what a wonderful smell.

I would go with cleaned the main armature-- poppin pigtails on brushes. Grinder running faster????? Check the voltage at the recept.
Parent - - By ibeweldingsum (***) Date 10-20-2009 21:06
I already did all that stuff before i posted, and yes the leads are hooked up correctly. The material for the test was sch 40 carbon 6 in A106 pipe in 6G position. The rods where 1/8" e6010 5P+ for the root pass, 5/32" e7010 HYP. for hotpass, filler, and cap.
Parent - - By 1mancrew (**) Date 10-21-2009 16:17
Just a suggestion, cuz it's hard to say without being there to see it and hear whats going on, and you may have alredy considered this but I would start looking at the engine itself and make sure it is running at peak performance. Only reason I say this is because I had a machine several years ago that was not firing on one cylinder and acted an awful lot like what you are describing. Besides, its all pretty basic and relatively inexpensive to check these things (plugs, fuel filters, air cleaners, etc.) and can have a huge impact on the machines overall performance. Hope this can help and I haven't totally wasted your time.

                                                            GH Weidman
Parent - - By ibeweldingsum (***) Date 10-21-2009 16:56
It's a classic II so it's a diesle engine. It runs just fine, But thanx
Parent - By FixaLinc (****) Date 10-22-2009 00:07
Maybe it's the classic 1 manual tells how to flash it to get your magnetic residual back ?  Did you try that too?  Check switches, wire, connections, brush springs, holders and brushes again but I know you already did that.  How old are the brushes ?  Stone the armature clean and replace all or some brushes.   Trouble shooting pages 17-18 and flashing instructions at bottom of page 18.  

http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/products/navigator/im/im471.pdf

Enter code number to find out which one is for your Classic II because there are couple of manuals for it.

http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/lecooperatorsmanualsearch.aspx
Parent - - By KSellon (****) Date 10-22-2009 20:53
I love the Classic 2 air cooled Deutz ---
Parent - - By up-ten (***) Date 10-23-2009 03:17
And why......?
Parent - - By KSellon (****) Date 10-24-2009 16:22
Smooth clean operation. Straight forward on repairs (easy to troubleshoot) AWESOME engine. One of the easiest to set up and alter weld characteristics. Smooth puddle at edge of weld and high deposition almost everytime

Same footprint as a SA200 and no nose to argue with when putting in a truck
Parent - - By up-ten (***) Date 10-24-2009 16:51 Edited 10-24-2009 19:57
I had always understood the air cooled Deutz was bad for vibration and losing bolts because of that.
Parent - By KSellon (****) Date 10-27-2009 18:52
NOt in my experience--if the engine and gen mounts are good. I check all that on my rental units when I service the machine.
Parent - - By KSellon (****) Date 10-22-2009 20:52
I replied below!!!!!!!
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-23-2009 17:05
Hi Kaye!

Did you ever run across one of those Multi-Quip Dual welding machines, and if you have, were they a real pain to service?

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By KSellon (****) Date 10-24-2009 16:20
yes and no, not so bad. They are made by Generac. The first and about only thing to fail is the total encapsulated control board. Generac wants $619 for it and they only offer a 90 day warranty on that. So 6 months to a year later you're back in the same boat (no pun intended)
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-28-2009 00:00 Edited 10-28-2009 00:04
Hi kaye!

That's all a lot of dough for a friggin control board, and I bet no one around like that fella out in Cali has a better price huh? Yeah once it croaks it's done because of the "Encapsulation" Unless you have a way of getting to the components and troubleshooting them for replacement by getting rid of the stuff they cover the board with if I understand you correctly?

Well, thanks for letting me know because years ago like back in the early eighties, I was an equipment repair person for a distributor in NYC and surrounding areas and they were popular with a few local municipalities in the some of the surrounding suburbs in the Metro area, and back then all I heard was rantin and raving about how quite and dependable they were, and just kept my mouth shut because I really didn't know much about them and I mostly worked on power sources and other equipment that was hooked up to at least 208 single phase and mostly 3 phase 480 primary input power for most of the middle to larger shops...

Most of the engine drives I worked on back in those days were Lincolns and not too many of those and a boat load of Miller machines which always had something or another going wrong with them, so I made the distributor some money on the warranty repairs but not much as you well know...

Most of the money I made for the company was on convincing them to use this mix of gas or these consumables or that FCAW wire... In other owrds anything that had "REPEAT SALES" written all over it and after a while that got real old... I only got excited when it was time to install new equipment and that was only three times a week at most unless we were in the busy season which were 16-18 hrs./ 7 days a week, but some of the systems we installed were really state of the art back then, and now most of them are considered obsolete today!!! Those were some interesting experiences back then. ;)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By ibeweldingsum (***) Date 10-28-2009 20:45
Hey Kaye can you put a SA200 generator assembly on a classic II chassis? I thought about doing a swap from the 250 generator to the 200. Can it be done? You know, have a deisle 200.........maybe?
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / What the heck is wrong with my machine!!!!

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