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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / SMAW
- - By Laredo (*) Date 10-27-2009 01:05
I've been selected to inspect some repair work for a field fix this week. This would usually not be a problem, but in my career as a welding inspector I've always worked in a shop inspecting processes like FCAW,GMAW,SAW. Is there anything that I should be on the look out for that I would not encouter withthe other processes.

Thanks,
Laredo 
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-27-2009 01:10
What are the other processes you are trying to describe??? You can also give us as much info that you have on this "Field fix" like some specifics of the repair work you are alluding to, the conditions, etc... In other words, Don't be shy Laredo because we're here to help if we can but, you need to tell us more than what you already have okay???

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By Laredo (*) Date 10-27-2009 01:44
The field fix has to due with stabilizing some light poles which have been found to have fatigue cracking in the HAZ. Because the poles are still erected, the manufacture has elected to add stiffeners (gussets) to the poles. The welding of the gussets to the shaft and the baseplate will all be done with stick. Again, I have never inspected stick welding, and am looking for some insight into some things (defects)  I may encounter that I would not with fcaw,gmaw.

Thanks,
Laredo
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-27-2009 02:01
Hi Laredo! First off, "WELDCOME TO THE WORLDS GREATEST WELDING FORUM!!!" Now that I've got that out of the way, here's my take on your situation...

Well, if you are a CWI, then all you have to do is to refer to the appropriate code book, read the acceptance criteria in the contract documents brush up on you certification manual and visual inspection manual and then you should be good to go! Now there's a friend of mine named JRW159 who has done some work on similar projects, and I believe he might be more helpful with more of the specifics than myself, so send him a Private Message and fire away because I'm sure he would be interested in the project as well. ;)

What I suggested is just somewhere to start, and my guess is that JRW159 and some of the other folks who also have some experience with similar work will chime in  and ask some more detailed questions on the specific nature of those light poles... Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, and watch that Galvanized stuff because those fumes will kill you if you're not thinking SAFETY!!!

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 10-27-2009 02:42 Edited 10-27-2009 02:46
Laredo,
  Just off the top of my head.

Follow the code and take no shortcuts as was mentioned.

Proper joint preparation.

Proper pre-heat.

Proper electrode storage and upkeep.

Monitor to insure that the peramiters are not exceeded.

If you do not follow these you will run into POROSITY, UNDERCUT, LACK OF FUSION, and these are just the indications that can be seen by visual.

Most of the issues I have seen result from not following and adhering to the code and spec and are not apparent to visual inspection until some time has passed.

I will leave the hot dip galv in the other thread since it will not apply to "in the field repairs" unless you disregard proper joint prep.

On another note, watch out for the welders that want to tell you that it is fine because they have been "doing it like this longer than you have been alive". I am not being a smart ass when I say this, I mean it. DO NOT REST ON THE CODE AND SPEC. You may very well be the bad guy by rejecting a fit up for lack of proper joint preparation but if you try to weld through the "hot dip galv" you will not gain anything and your name is on it.

I am curios, will these be "stabilized" in the erect position or will they be laid down and worked on?

jrw159
Parent - - By Laredo (*) Date 10-27-2009 03:02
As far as I know, these will be welded in the erect position. I appreciate you taking the time to reply. I'm looking through the weld inspection technology book, as well as  D1.1 so that I can have all these things well in mind. As far as the age comments, I've  them a thousand times, but as you mentioned, at the end of the day, I'm accountable.

Thanks,
Laredo
Parent - - By Laredo (*) Date 10-27-2009 03:29
Just found out they're going to be using E7018, 1/8" rods, and the poles will be welded while they are erect.

Thanks,
Laredo
Parent - By Superflux (****) Date 10-27-2009 03:40
Photograph everything you can from every conceivable angle. You don't have to use all of them in your report of course. Beware of residual galvanise (zinc) on the material, recognizable by a white residue. HDG penetrates really deep and often is not noticed until it is "Burnt".
Parent - By bert lee (**) Date 10-27-2009 03:58
before leaving to site, the following documents should be available for reference

1. repair procedure on crack
2. detailed drawing for stiffener connection
3. wps / & pqr for smaw (welding galv coated / non-coated surface)
4. welder cert for smaw welder
5. approved inspection and test plan (itp)

verify the raw materials prior to cutting. i will not be surprised that the materials already been cut up when you reach the site.
so, confirm your work scope and determine the extent of your involvement as stated in the itp.

by the way, ensure portable oven for low hydrogen electrodes is available at site.
i have bad experienced with those stubborn welders who were lazy to use them.

bert
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 10-27-2009 12:14
In addition to things that others have said, you should look at the "Weld Toe" condition at the top of the stiffeners.  The slightest weld overlap and /or undercut defect at the wrap around weld on the top of the stiffener often results in failure through the thickness of the tube.  This area is especially succeptable to weld defects such a lack of fusion at the root, slag inclusion, Undercut and Overlap, because it is in the stop/re-start area, and the weld is often very short.

The overlap condition is actually just a contributing factor, but the chevrons on the crack faces (on the pole and stub after the pole cracks and falls) point to the overlap spots like a road map.  I feel that Undercut and Arc Strikes can more legitimately be blamed for the fatigue failures than the overlap.

I have seen many failures blamed on this "stiffener installation" repair solution and the associated welding, but I think it is a rather poor method of repair for what is really a fatigue condition design problem.  When the next failure happens, the failure will be blamed on the badly made welds, and the sloppy engineering will be off the hook!   That is good for the Engineer and the Manufacturer, but not so good for the welders and the inspectors!

If you are an independent operator type of CWI, watch yourself!!!!  If you are an advisor to the owner of the pole, tell him that it is not a good idea to use his own welders for this type of work.  Advise him to have the "manufacturers welders" perform the repair. 
Parent - - By Laredo (*) Date 10-28-2009 00:59
This is all excellent advise. To answer a few quetions, yes I am a CWI, and I am actually employed by the manufacture of the poles in question. I too agree that this is not a good idea to attempt to repair these poles. We are actually in the process of making replacements for the poles, and this is just a temporary repair. I'll definantly need to insist on the portable heater, as well as the appropriate repair, weld procedure. I'll be sure and pay close attention to the weld toes on the stiffeners.

Thanks,
Laredo  
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 10-28-2009 14:54
Those welds will be a lot uglier than anything you're seen in the shop.  The trick is telling ugly from noncompliant.  How long is this repair supposed to last?  Are the gussets instead of weld repair, or just to supplement while the weld repair is being done?

Hg
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 10-28-2009 21:48
Make sure the welders drive the moisture out of the thick steel base plates before allowing them to tack or weld anything.

As a CWI I'm certain you know better, i.e., there is no moisture "in the steel". Just make sure proper preheating and interpass temperatures are maintained while the welding is being performed.

Make sure the welders slag and brush the weld beads before continuing with the next weld pass. You are not lkely to "burn out" any remaining slag that isn't completely removed between weld passes.

If there are any back gouging performed for complete joint penetration groove welds, make sure the BG extends to sound metal. Leave no "traces" of incomplete fusion or incomplete penetration in the root.

Good luck and do as the previous responses have suggested.

Best regards - Al
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / SMAW

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