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Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / The Bill is finished
- - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 10-28-2009 20:33
The Bill is finished but, the democrates will not release it to the Republicans!
WTF has this ever happened before...
Time to search the records.
What do you all think?
Parent - By rick harnish (***) Date 10-29-2009 00:47
Coming close to time to enable the second ammendment as it was freaking written!!
Transparency, my ASS!
Parent - - By uphill (***) Date 10-29-2009 02:13
It sort of is like the Skimulus bill, just shut up and vote for it. There is so much voting and closed door meetings that this is just the start of surprises to come. Don't be surprised to wake up one morning and hear the Amnesty bill passed with 60-38 and two absent. This coupled with the cancelling of Goverment permits to drill and mine will make looking for a job a hard road untill 2012.(or maybe in 2010 with any luck)

Why let the Republicans appear involved in anyway?

Vote Often
Parent - - By swsweld (****) Date 10-29-2009 02:46
Parent - - By FixaLinc (****) Date 10-29-2009 06:04
President BARACK OBAMA

was invited to address a major gathering of the American Indian Nation two weeks ago in upstate New York.

HE spoke for almost an hour on HIS future plans for increasing every Native American's present standard of living, since he has now become the President.. HE referred to his career as a Senator, how he had signed 'YES' for every Indian issue that came to his
desk for approval.

Although President Obama was vague on the
details of his plan, he seemed most enthusiastic about his 'red sisters and brothers.'

At the conclusion of his speech, the Tribes presented Obama with a plaque inscribed with his new Indian
name – “Walking Eagle.”

The proud President then departed in his motorcade, waving to the crowds.

A news reporter later inquired to the group of chiefs of how they came to select the new name they
had given to the President. They explained that
“Walking Eagle” is the name given to a bird so full
of crap it can no longer fly.
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 10-29-2009 13:22
Fixalinc
Your e-mail associates like to continue the internet hoaxes.
I enjoyed this again tho and can definitely relate but it has been a saying since the 60's and tagged to Kerry, Clinton, and Bush to name a few.
It has used running eagle for the same reason (to full to fly)
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/eagle.asp
Parent - By FixaLinc (****) Date 10-29-2009 15:40
Well snopes probably doesn't mean anything just like some peace award and yeah that one has been around used lots before so what ?  What makes you think snopes is any truth anyway when you got someone like O with the dufus award ? 
Attachment: obama_peace_my-ass.jpg (0B)
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 10-29-2009 16:38
WELL I READ IT WILL BE POSTED ON LINE FOR 72 HOURS...........WITH ONLY A 71.75 HOUR DOWNLOAD :)
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 10-29-2009 13:57
Well I REALLY need to know what to expect now.  I will be laid off at the end of November and will lose my health insurance.  One guy laid off with me says his COBRA policy will cost $1440 a month!!!!!! (His mortgage is only $850).  I found a $10,000 ded 20% copay policy for $117 a month.  That will be my choice since I am not sick and only need a worst case death from cancer backup.  If Obama FORCES me to buy a better policy for $300 or $400 or $700 a month on my unemployed income I will be FURIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Parent - By ross (***) Date 10-29-2009 14:33
Right now, many people have to hang onto their expensive COBRA because they have pre-existing conditions and can't get the good deal you got. Best of luck staying healthy and hope you get back to work right away!
Looks like the public option will be the best hope for you, because nobody who is on unemployment will have to pay premiums.

Ross
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-29-2009 19:42
Hi OBEWAN!

Doesn't the AWS have a health insurance policy available for members? Hey Ross, maybe he could go that route as i remember their plan was pretty reasonable when it first came out, don't you think???

If I were you, I would check it out in the AWS website under member benefits I believe... Hey man, it sure can't hurt to try!!! :) :) :) Btw, are you a Vet? because you can always fall back on that plan also. In any event, I do believe that there are provisions for individuals who cannot afford the COBRA premiums to be come subsidized by the states they live in who get their funding from the Federal government, so I would look into that also because I heard that a person I know was about to be charged 450 or more dollars a month for continued COBRA coverage and when they complained that they could not afford it, their human resources representative advised them of the new plan to help pay for most of the COBRA premiums cost, and they ended up only paying around 100 dollars a months which is a substantial savings any way one looks at it!!! Go talk to them because I believe you'll be pleasantly surprised by what they can offer you. more importantly. Keep the faith buddy even though it can be very hard at times, I know because I struggle with it sometimes myself, so you are not alone friend!!! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 10-29-2009 20:25 Edited 03-20-2014 08:28
Thanks for the tip.  I checked.  You are thinking about the Title III Health Insurance for Unemployed Workers Act of 2009.

What I have found out so far is that it may pay up to 65% of a COBRA policy for up to 1 year for laid off people.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-30-2009 03:50 Edited 10-30-2009 19:22
Are you searching yet??? Any nibbles from the pond yet, or you haven't even put out a bunch of lines yet, or thrown out nay chum yet??? If you don't know what I'm talking about, using analogy with respect to job searchng!!! ;) ;) ;)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By OBEWAN (***) Date 10-30-2009 19:17
Yes.  I have applied at every shipyard in town and for all open navy jobs at the air station and Mayport shipyard.

I have an upcoming phone interview with GE which would be for a transfer position to Houston to work in oil and gas for Vetco.

My problem is with my condo.  I can't afford to sell it at a 45% loss.  I am hesitant to rent it and let it get trashed since it is brand new in pristine condition.  If I am forced to rent I will lose about $50 a month.  The Lord only knows how many years I will have to wait unti it goes back up to where it can be sold.  Maybe I could wait 10 years and come back and retire in Jacksonville though.  If they trash the floors and I move back in I can always put in Pergo floors or hardwoods and use Persian rugs.
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 10-30-2009 19:26
I have really good feeling that things will work out for the best for you Steve! With your optimistic yet realistic attitude, things ought to turn out just fine!!! ;) ;) ;)
And I will most definitely P.U.S.H. for you!!! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By darren (***) Date 10-29-2009 22:29
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/10/29/us-health-care-bill-house-representative.html
here is a link to a canadian main stream news site.
i will be reading the body and text of this bill, with its massive size and implications there has to be something nefarius hidden in there like most bills.ron paul may be able to ferret it out but depending on how this thing is ramrodded through it may not be until after it is passed.
i am all for public health care but this thing is nothing like that and it is to me at least a further step towards a fascist type of socialism.
any body read it yet?
Parent - - By ross (***) Date 10-30-2009 01:49
Darren, you live in Canada with socialized medicine so what's your beef with this?

Ross
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 10-30-2009 02:36
be cuz if we are all on the waiting list ....how will our northen brothers be able see to our doctors.
this take over will hurt more than americans.think about how much of our medical surplus and technology has helped the world.
Parent - - By darren (***) Date 10-30-2009 19:24
mike this is one of the concerns that non americans have, the world does not revolve around how america feels or thinks, it has a great influence and a vast market but right now it is worth about 9cents on the dollar and that is being generous.
so i know that nationalism is a big part of america and that is good, it is its ultranationalism that is concerning and not to just us dumb foreigners.
america is not an island and does not exist in a vacuum, the next few months/years will tell us alot about exactly where it stands on world markets.
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 10-30-2009 21:15
Honestly Darren I dont give a rats ass about the rest of the world ringht now.We are in this situation BECAUSE of the rest of the world, and i knew when we were down and out nobody would stand by us.
Dont forget the very systems that they are trying to take over was built on capitalism, so its easy for the ignorant to come in so late in the game critisize it and say I can do it better.
Well a wise man knows when to let a fool have comand.................
Parent - - By darren (***) Date 10-30-2009 21:21
i think that you are leaping to some unfounded conclusions, i agree that america was built on a free market and should return to it. as far as blaming your trading partners for your woes seems at best incredulous.
although we disagree on many points one thing we do agree on is that there is a move to turn the world into a fuedal system and americas founding principles are the best treatise on how to gaurd against tyranny and despotism.
i'll assume that you were meaning the collective ignorant latecomers critisism, and not anyone specifically.
the strange thing about the world if you look at it from space it appears to be one thing not a bunch of nations.
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 10-31-2009 12:07
Please elaborate on my unfounded conclusions.
I do not directly blame out trade partners , I blame our selfish bloated gov. See some Americans feel the feds have few responsibilities granted by the states. One of those responsibilities is to regulate and balance trade with other countries.
The feds have not done their job. Period....we are at the Sh*t end of the stick with ever trade aggreement.
See our system is so confused that when we place tariffs on goods the receiving country says that its too much.......... what happens..............the feds let our plants be moved into the country in question. More raping of American business.
I’ve noticed in my life how many jobs we have lost.
Anyhow................

I refer to collective ignorance
a person is smart....................but people are stupid.
See socialism and heaven are allot alike.......they only work through a moral supreme being, and until then EVERY man for himself.
Parent - By darren (***) Date 10-31-2009 22:07
"the rest of the world is the problem"
thats a bit hard to swallow,
like my exwife is the problem
or
my boss is the problem
or what have you
we are all resposible for our own problems
yes as the constitution states the feds job is to ensure contractual fullfillment between states and to see that international agreements are kept.
that has been lost.
agreed all the bills passed lately have been a game of hide the peanut or three card monte with the american public and indeed the world.
things are out of control and those who stand up and take notice are treated like "whack a mole" at the amusement park

Göring spoke about war and extreme nationalism to Captain Gilbert, as recorded in Gilbert's Nuremberg Diary:

   " Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. ...voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country"

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” joeseph goebbels

“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”
“How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.” adolf hitler

please just lets agree to disagree on this one.
america is not the only one who gets screwed when america is one of the parties to an international agreement, america is very profficient at international sadomy as well.
Parent - By BryonLewis (****) Date 10-30-2009 22:56
Bravo!!! 
Parent - - By darren (***) Date 10-30-2009 19:00 Edited 10-31-2009 02:15
i dont have a beef with socialized medicine i think that it should be free for everyone.
what concerns me is that it seems that it is being used to erode rights instead of enhance them.
america does need a new medical system but it doesnt need more debt.
also there will most likely be some subtext that further creates a fascist type of socialism one where the state has more rights than the people.
the state should serve the people not the other way around.
*and according to the constitution it should be run by the states and not federally*
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 10-31-2009 11:13
Darren
Let us look a bit more closely,  i think that it should be free for everyone, Do you work for free? Why should the Health care industry be served up free for everyone. For one thing we see it isn't equal when it is free.
We have seen it isn't better when it is free.
And Making it free doesn't make it right.
First it isn't free. If it is taken over it will be funded by the government. The government makes it's money to pay with this how?
What this does is take away the need, desire if you will to grow.
I have seen first hand the differences it makes in the way people treat things given to them versus things earned.
I can relate to the rest of your post and agree with you to a great extent.
But I just wanted to remind that free doesn't equate to better, easier, or righter.
It destroys people and the strength and determination of their desires.
Parent - - By darren (***) Date 10-31-2009 21:47 Edited 10-31-2009 22:11
ok free was used as an accesible word, i dont believe it is free at all but when a state runs its economy it generates an income and in a good society there is a nuetral budget because in essence it is the peoples money therefore it should support the people.
common resources=common profit
as much as it sucks the best way to get rid of gangbangers and welfare and all the other malodies in society is health and education, no amount of contempt is going to solve these issues. as distasteful it is to some of the "haves" to give to the "have nots" the have nots without judgement obviously have some sort of issue and are unable to rise to their potential, this alone for me is proof that they need help even if it is somewhat painful to support bad decisions that others make.
their are some great policy makers out there who could figure it out i am sure.
i believe that when we fundementally shift our paradigms to include and accept everyone and i mean everyone then unfettered access to education and health services are a must for a responsible govt , which is in theory if not actuality a collective representation of the zeitgeist.
basically forgiveness and inclusion.
my sister says this one
"thinking that life should be fair because you are a good person is like thinking that the bull wont charge you because your a vegatarian"
(i am very proud of her as she works with street level sex trade workers and other disenfrachised persons and is making a difference to one "starfish" at a time, i learn alot from her)
to me this means there will always be unfairness and it often falls on those who play fair to cover the costs of the cheats and liars, we must mitigate the potential for those who wish to cheat and lie by rules but none the less there will be those that cheat and steal, that to me is a cost of providing an as fair as possible universal access to health care and education (same thing in my opinion education is health care for the mind).
as hard as it is to swallow, the only way out of this mess is going to be sacrifice and compassion. and to me thats the real test of a society or person, when they can do the right thing because it is right. sorry a little soap boxy there but i do have hope that we as a species can make it, its just gonna be ardeous and providing for those who do not have enough to me is part of that ardeour.
p.s. no i do not want to give up my warm water or my harley to save people without any water or food which makes me a hypocrite just like everyone else. 
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 11-01-2009 03:23
Darren, the problem is that about 1/2 of Us Americans do not trust Our Govt. to get involved with health care because WE FEAR THEY WILL SCREW IT UP. We look at other examples of Govt. run programs in Our country, and We are not encouraged.

The other 1/2 does not trust private industry, as "they are only out for themselves" and would rather chance Govt. run programs.
Parent - - By BryonLewis (****) Date 11-01-2009 05:21
I would be one of the latter.
Parent - By swsweld (****) Date 11-02-2009 00:56
Bryon,
What happens when the Republicans retake the House, Senate and the WhiteHouse? Will you still "trust" the gubmt? I doubt it. That IS the folly with gubmt power as opposed to the rights and freedoms of the individual. Power shifts back and forth but "We the people" are stuck with the consequences of corrupt politicians...from either side.
You will probably see a glimpse of the future on Nov. 4th 2009. NY, NJ and VA. The nation is disgusted with how this admin is spending money that we don't have on things that we don't need and using "social programs" to gain control of every facet of our lives. 2010 will be more revealing and 2012 will be the verdict on whether the nation will reject a gubmt that seeks to control the people by taking their labor and rights because THEY know better than we do on how to run our lives.

On a lighter note.
Congratulations on the Jayhawks ranked No 1 in preseason.
Parent - By uphill (***) Date 11-02-2009 03:20
Term limmits on all politicions and Judges would bring a lot of people to the same conclusion.  Lets all hope it could be that easy to repair all of the political raping of America.  I think its got more to do with how long a politicion is in office and the voting record than which party they are supposed to be with.  Like all of our other gov run programs how much will filter its way into the Yes voters pockets??

Politicions have to serve the people not Command them!  Do they not work for us?

   The bill will never be finished or the true costs will never be known. After all its hard to see numbers written in such transperancy.
Parent - By darren (***) Date 11-01-2009 09:44
it is no doubt a conundrem. where does one put their trust.
it would be way easier if, as it seems everyone, everyside, wasn't lying.
"we the people" have been abandonded.
it would seem that prayer and martyrdom may be all that is left.
any other discourse that may make my family safe and free is totally welcome, i am just losing faith in the system.
signed
just another man
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 10-31-2009 12:11
this bill is a tax payer shell game
Up Topic Chit-Chat & Non-Welding Discussion / Off-Topic Bar and Grill / The Bill is finished

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