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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Typical SAWFabrication Processes of long Plate Girder-How to
- - By eekpod (****) Date 10-30-2009 12:56
I curious as to how other shops out there fabricate long (20'-70') plate girders and more specifically how to you restrain/ hold the members in place during SAW welding?

We have made some short plate girders (15'-20') and we have a hand held SAW unit and a track unit for the flat position.  So when we made these parts we fit them up and put all kinds of restaints going from the top flange down to the bottom flange to keep everything square and even during welding.  The problem is that these braces are in the way and we have to keep stopping and starting at each brace.

How do other shops make those long seam welds?  What holds the parts in place? are they held in some kind of a jig that keeps everything together?

We are considering buying a new SAW unit and if its either a gantry arm or a crawler, either way the braces would be in the way if we stayed with the way we do it now.

Thanks  Chris
Parent - By Superflux (****) Date 10-30-2009 16:33 Edited 10-30-2009 16:45
Crawler set ups are what I have seen (large? 48" to 80" girders). This allows access underneath the Flg 2 Flg braces and the Flg to webs just have to be interrupted and figured into the BID. But, I have only been in 2 AISC, D1.1, D1.5 shops.
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 10-30-2009 21:25
Chris

Most of the time, those temporary stays are not allowed. 

All of the fabrication facilities that I inspect as a third party QA inspector, who weld with the flanges vertical and the web plate horizontal, use some sort of "squeezer" and wedges to hold the flanges aligned.  Some also tilt the flanges to a "secret" number of degrees, so that the flanges are slightly tilted after the first side is welded and are perpendicular after the second side is welded.  Many shops flip the beams when placing multiple pass welds, so that the flange tilt comes out perpendicular.  Most shops do extensive tacking on both sides of the web prior to SAW welding.

I have seen some shops that weld with the web vertical, and they all tack weld both sides and top and bottom prior to running the crawler carriages with the wire feeders down both sides simultaneously.  I have seen only one shop do web vertical welding fabrication without a squeezer.

Swept and cambered tub girders are always done in a special squeezer.

In bridge girders, tilt of the flange is often a QC/QA issue, but not the warp of the flange, because the thickness of the flanges is adequate to avoid exceeding the acceptance criteria limit for warp and tilt of flange.  I usually see web warpage problems when the web plate is less than 9/16 inch thick.

In building girders, many times the flange plates are relatively thin, and I often see excess warpage.  Again, I also see web warpage problems when the web plates are less that 9/16 inch thick.

Fabricators that regularly fabricate welded beams usually have a Dart Welder to weld the stiffeners to the webs.   Is this type of fabrication something your company is just getting into?

Joe Kane
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 11-08-2009 03:42
Joe     
What makes you say that "most of the time those temporary stays are not allowed"?  code? job specification? or just acccess for the welding unit itself??

Chris
Parent - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 11-08-2009 20:03
Chris

Most of my fabrication and inspection experience with heavy built up columns and girders are fabricated to some State contract requiring compliance to, D 1.5 , NYSSCM, and AASHTO fabrication rules, and that State's DOT Manual.  I do not know of any state that allows the temporary stays to be used.  I have never been associated with fabrication for manufactured buildings, but, for the most part, I still cannot see why a company experienced in built-up member fabrication should need them.  The squeezer system employed by the fabricator would take into account the number of passes, and the pre-tilt of the flanges.

Joe Kane
Parent - By HgTX (***) Date 11-09-2009 18:29
Not allowed for bridge work.

Hg
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 11-01-2009 14:29 Edited 11-01-2009 19:15
Metal building manufacturers fabricate beams by SAW web plate to flat bar flanges on an assembly line basis. The parts are held together in a large, adjustable, pneumatic jig during SAW with very little to no distortion, even though the beams are only welded on one side.

Here is an example of a CONRAC fully automatic machine, otherwise known as a "Pull Through" beam welder. With this machine, an operator simply feeds pre cut parts into one end and the machine spits a completed beam out the other end. This set up is rather expensive, with a basic model starting around 1 million dollars.

http://www.yodermachinery.com/machine.asp?Index=0

The last company I worked for used a KENTEX semi automatic machine that worked very well but was somewhat labor intensive as operators hand load the parts into the jig and tack them together prior to turning on the automatic SAW. This macine is more economical at a starting price for a basic model around 250K.

http://www.gokentex.com/pages/beam_welding.htm

Here's another link for a typical pull through beam welder.

http://www.steelexnetwork.com/beamweldingline.html

Tim
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 11-01-2009 15:15
Hi Tim!

Thanks foe the KENTEX link! ;) However, the Yoder machinery link isn't working properly for some reason or another. Perhaps you could re-check the Url.
Once again, thanks for the info!!! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 11-01-2009 22:49
Thanks for the info guys and the links.

We are only bidding a the job right now and it has about 30 plate girders to make out of heavy material, up to 4" thick.  Of course once we have the new equiptment, we will use it for other projects as well.  This is not something we are considering doing all the time, right now.  Just with this new potential project, and the SWA equiptment we have being older, we are looking at what the best to get to be able to do this project, and others in the future without spend an enourmous amount of money.  Chris
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 11-02-2009 11:18
The machines I mentioned will not handle material 4" thick.
The most they will do is 1 1/4" x 12" flanges with 6' wide web plate.
It sounds to me like you need a heavy duty hydraulic structure that will allow welding on both sides simultaneously.
I bet John Wright has some better advice.

Tim
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 11-04-2009 17:51
Anyone use or work with Kentex equiptment??

Until this post I have never heard of it.
I am talking with Ken Rorie now about the cost of a SAW plate girder unit and I'd like to hear how well it works or doesn't.  I am talking to ESAB and Lincoln as well, but the Kentex has a to hold the members in place versus us building a jig or table to hold the parts.

Thanks  Chris
Parent - - By TimGary (****) Date 11-05-2009 02:20
I used a Kentex 6' x 60' beam welder for 8 years, with which we welded tens of thousands of beams. The machine is still going strong in the same shop.
Over this time period, we only had to do basic maintenance, which mainly consisted of repairing air hoses and a couple of pneumatic control valves. It was the most solid, well built piece of equipment in my shop.
Ken Rorie came to my shop to help set the machine, which was used when we bought it. Ken is a great guy, honest and dependable, who always returns phone calls and is extremely helpful. I'm confident Ken can build a machine to do what you need, if anybody can.
All I can say is that if you buy a machine from Ken, and you have thouroughly explained exactly what you require from the machine, you'll never regret it.
Please tell Ken that Tim Gary from Greeneville, TN said "Hello".
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 11-05-2009 11:28
I will and I have to tell you if it wasn't for you mentioning Kentex,I would have never heard of the company, so thank you for the referance.

Chris
Parent - By cajun welder (**) Date 11-06-2009 00:45
We use a Kentex welder. We made our own jig, which is 6'X75', and is stationary. The welder is on tracks and after 14yrs of going back and forth the wires are starting to break. As for the welder no major breakdowns. IMO this has been a great machine.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Typical SAWFabrication Processes of long Plate Girder-How to

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