running 5P 6010 downhill

Date 05-10-2002 11:18

Joebob, teaching someone to weld in the shop is tough enough, teaching over the net is just about impossible. With that said, what it sounds like to me is that you are on a cross country pipe job. When I get new welders on a job like this they usually already know how to weld E6010 downhand. The only advice I can give you, and I don't mean to be rude, is to go watch one of the old guys for a few minutes. If you can't pick it up real fast, than you need to consider getting off that job until you can learn it. 6010 downhand is an artform all it's own, some guys pick it up first try, others never do. I have sent employees to a 2 week course at Lincoln Electric for downhill welding, most of them are already quality high pressure pipe welders though and they mostly come back with the necessary skills. I know this isn't what you asked for, but since nobody else answered you yet, I thought I might throw this out to you.

Mike Sherman
Shermans Welding

By joebob- Date 05-14-2002 02:55

Mike,

Thanks for your response, no I'm not on the pipeline, the main thing I am after is on the cap pass should I long arc it? , whip the rod use circles? simple things like that my weld are not that bad I just want to get better.

thanks

By Michael Sherman (***)

Date 05-14-2002 11:01

Joe, I don't really long arc much of anything. The cap is generally weaved, not whipped and you are probably are using the 5/32" rod. You will find there are several different techniques depending on who you talk to. The best you can do is watch someone once or twice and practice. If you were in my area I have an older employee who it would make his whole week just to give you one lesson. Sorry I cannot help more.

Respectfully,
Mike Sherman

By Seldom

Date 05-14-2002 15:42

Well Joebob, remember the principles and technique used when running uphill while you’re on your overhead. The basic principles still apply because you’re trying to keep the cap flat and not sagging in addition to not undercutting the edges.

From my experiences here are some tips on overhead work I’ve learned over the years from some very skilled downhillers.

1.Cut your heat back about 15-20 amps when you’re at 4:30 & 7:30.

2.Your fill passes should have the groove filled pretty much flush before running the cap. This holds true regardless of the location around the circumference. If the last fill pass is low in the center, I’d suggest running another pass (“slicker pass”) down the center to fill it out flush.

3.The overhead technique is an exaggerated weave that’s whipped! By this I mean you weave across the groove but whip the arc ahead along each edge of the groove. Similar to a capital letter “U”.

4.Remember gravity is working against the molten puddle so you use the fast-freeze characteristics of the E6010 electrode in order to keep the cap flat and avoid undercutting while increasing your forward travel speed.

Since your original post was some time ago, you’ve probably already been tipped off by your more experienced workmates as to a favored technique.

By welder_guy2001 (***)

Date 05-14-2002 22:51

yeah, a weave-whipping action would work. you do the same thing when you run 6010 uphill...pause, weave, pause, whip, pause, weave, pause, whip, pause, weave. it's like running 2 whipped beads side by side, only they're being connected by the weave.

By joebob- Date 05-25-2002 20:44

Thanks to everyone! My 5G is looking alot better all of your tips helped alot. What kind of a technique would you recommend for a 2G position, I have been filling the pipe out almost flush, then caping with a straight wip technique, the problem I am having is the cap bead allways has more reinforcement on the the bottom bevel than the top bevel edge, any tips to get my cap more flat on this would be appreciated, I have been running 5\32 5P.

thanks

Joebob-

By Seldom

Date 05-25-2002 22:43

Ah, now you’re talking about a position that many of the more proficient 5P welders use as their “signature weld”! I’ve seen some absolutely beautiful 2G caps applied by some of these prideful craftsmen over the years. A few even have names for their own techniques. One that comes to mind was called the “Beaverton Weave” by its creator and it was obvious to any passerby whose weld it was. The best I ever witnessed was so precise that it took an experienced eye to find any of his starts & stops and the pattern both vertically and horizontally was so uniform I think you could mic them and find little variation in either direction.

It’s good to hear you’re doing well with the 5G. Before long you’ll be brother-inlawing joints with another experienced hand and making “snakeheads” and “iron butterflies”.

Enough of that stuff and back to your question.
Again, remember the basic principles of gravity’s effect on a molten puddle, even a fast freeze one such as the 5P’s as it is applied to any 2G weld. It’s been my experience and observation that many welders start concentrating on timing or looking for their visual indicator for the whip and forgets about their rod angle. If you forget and just proceed to travel around the joint with a square-to-the-joint whip, the lower edge has to sag. I like to think of the appropriate rod angle as a compound angle. That’s what happens when you drop your elbow and your vertical angle is close to 45 degrees to the joint but your whip is applied square. By using this technique, when your arc is whipped back and a puddle forms, the arc force pushes the puddle upward forcing the upper half of the puddle to become slightly thicker then the lower edge. You may have to change the size of your visual indicator slightly in order to whip ahead and freeze the puddle before the molten puddle has a chance to sag beyond the flat your looking for.

What I’ve tried to describe for you is how I’ve done it, how I’ve seen it done, and it’s about all I can do without actually showing you.

Practice, Practice, Practice is my best advise and what I highly recommend you follow!