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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / TIP TIG?
- - By Metarinka (****) Date 11-13-2009 19:26
http://www.weldreality.com/TIP-TIG-Welding.htm

anyone heard anything about this? what's the difference between this and hot or cold feed GTAW? something about a unique agitation action?

seems like Ed Craig at it again...
Parent - - By RonG (****) Date 11-13-2009 20:24
Given the size of the welds its hard to imagine any wire agitation other than what the cast would provide unless it is back and forth like a very rapid pulse feed. I mean how much can you agitate the wire after its melted?
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 11-13-2009 21:16
yah that's what I was thinking, I would really have to evaluate the system in person.  Although doing the wire feed for manual welding would be useful in it's own right. Has no one tried to implement that before? the only issue I see would be torch orientaiton which tends to move a lot for tig
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 11-14-2009 02:58
It looks to Me like a semi automatic hot wire TIG setup. I don't know if there have been any semi auto systems like this before. I know there have been semi auto cold wire systems.
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 11-14-2009 06:30 Edited 11-15-2009 00:36
Hey Metarnka,

This is an explanation writte n in the Fabricator Magazine and it basically spells it out like this:

"The wire feeder feeds a weld wire from a typical 30- to 50-lb. gas metal arc welding (GMAW or MIG) wire reel at a constant linear forward motion while applying a "mechanical action" to the wire. The wire entering the weld pool is superimposed with a high-frequency, dynamic, linear forward - backward motion, which agitates the weld pool and generates kinetic energy into the puddle.

The weld wire motion associated with this process eliminates the surface tension present in traditional GTAW weld pools, which changes the weld dynamics and creates a highly mobile molten pool that is receptive to higher-than-normal wire filler rates associated with the conventional and hot and cold GTAW processes. Increased wire feed rates enable higher weld current per application, which reduces the likelihood of internal weld defects and weld fusion.

The weld pool agitation and increased weld energy from the higher weld current allow the pool to remain molten longer. Weld fluidity is especially important with sluggish alloys like duplex, chrome, and nickel alloys. This agitation-energy combination enables a greater release of weld gas oxide reactions and contaminants and reduces weld stresses."

Now Ed Craig wouldn't be raving about this system if he didn't think there  was something unique in what it offered compared to other cold/hot wire feed GTAW systems that have already been out in the market for quite some time now, and yes he is a bit eccentric at times,but show me any really good welding specialist that isn't!!! This man certainly knows what he's talking about and has been ostricized mainly because his views are superior to the status quo and they do not know how to handle someone like Ed who's not afraid at all to challenge the status quo with innovative and progressive perspectives and his accomplishments speak volumes on behalf of what he has already been able to achieve because he consistently succeeds in thinking outside of the box - so to speak... Here's the complete article:

http://www.thefabricator.com/arcwelding/ArcWelding_Article.cfm?ID=2286

This is similar system except it's cold wire fed instead, and they have been around for quite some time now:

http://www.ckworldwide.com/coldwire.htm

Here's Abicor Binzel's version of their Cold Wire feed system, and if you're going to the show in Chi-town then you can pick their brains further:

http://www.binzel.com/upload/pdf/abidrive-cw_flyer_pro_w133_gb_web.pdf

Here's a Japanese company that has been around since 1927 which offers a GTAW Cold wire feed system with optional capabilities of Hot wire and AVC as well called "Millenium TIG":

http://www.aichi-sangyo.co.jp/english/product/PDF/MILLENNIUMTIG.pdf

http://www.aichi-sangyo.co.jp/english/index.html

http://www.aichi-sangyo.co.jp/english/product/e_product.html

Also, I'm sure that you seen these systems being that you work out in California and there are so many of these systems out there as well as their headquarters bing out there too:

http://www.jetline.com/product.aspx?i=14522&c=30&pp=8&sb=0&p=0

http://www.jetline.com/upload/documents/hwp-50d%20hot%20wire%20brochure.pdf

Here's their downloads page:

http://www.jetline.com/downloads.aspx?n=778244

This French company  - Astro-Arc Polysoude has been around for quite some time now, and are reputable for their orbital welding systems, yet they did make some really interesting seamers with hot wire capabilities as well as being capable of interfacing their system with most other TIG welding peripherals manufacturers components in order to customize systems to do just about whatever one wanted to weld and didn't work with such a tight budget... These folks make some excellent equipment IMHO... I should know since I set up some of their equipment back in the day when Grumman was still building  the F-14 aircraft out of Bethpage as well as Republic Fairchild when they were cranking out the A-10 Wart Hogs that are still flying today then again, Grumman and Republic had no loyalty to any one equipment manufacturer because htey were more interested in purchasing systems that worked well  for their specific applications... Anywho, here's their web site, but I don't know if they still make Hot wire systems anymore so you'll have to explore their site a little more thna I did besides, there's also some other equipment that may just be of interest to you in here as well and if you're going to the big show in Chicago, you can check them out further while you're there because I'm sure they'll have a booth set up as well:

http://www.polysoude.com/?spg=markets/aeronauticsAerospace.asp&lang=us

Here's an interesting field application using their version of Hot wire TIG welding:

http://www.polysoude.com/documents/english/Cooling_Spirals.pdf

These folks are the same company where Stephan works with, and I'm sure they can come up with a system for your needs as well and they'll be at the show as well:

http://www.welder.by/files/auto_argon-arc_welding.pdf

This is some of the equipment this French/Canadian company offers for many specialized applications:

http://www.airliquidewelding.com/file/otherelement/pj/soudage%20tig%20plasma14602.pdf

http://www.blueshield.ca/en/docs/pdf/marketOffers/metalFabrication/PlasmaTig_Color_E.pdf

These folks don't just make orbital welding systems as you'll see in this .pdf:

http://www.arcmachines.com/pdf/Model2_E.pdf

If you can translate the text in Japanese, you'll find this article on hot wire TIG Robotic welding research very interesting and something you may want to pursue later on for a possible thesis project ro whatever else you may wnat to do with it:

http://nels.nii.ac.jp/els/110003431575.pdf?id=ART0003984598&type=pdf&lang=en&host=cinii&order_no=&ppv_type=0&lang_sw=&no=1258164270&cp=

This one is more in-depth form the same folks:

http://www.bhk.co.jp/4tech/01tech/img/yousetsu_ronbun.pdf

Here's another interesting article that needs to be translated into english as well:

http://nels.nii.ac.jp/els/110003423762.pdf?id=ART0003957265&type=pdf&lang=en&host=cinii&order_no=&ppv_type=0&lang_sw=&no=1258179219&cp=

Here's another article you may find interesting:

http://www.thefabricator.com/ArcWelding/ArcWelding_Article.cfm?ID=2318

These folks are top notch in automated GTAW and EB welding systems, and you might want to network with these folks to pick their brains as well considering what they offer and they'll probably be at the show as well:

http://www.dynamicmaterials.com/Divisions/AMK%20Welding

Here's another company that offers all sorts of precision engineering welding technological solution for a variety of specialty markets, and they're based in the USA, Europe and Asia as well:

http://www.ametinc.com/

http://www.ameteurope.co.uk/pages/9.htm

http://www.ameteurope.co.uk/userdata/files/catalogue.pdf

http://www.ameteurope.co.uk/cgi-bin/sitewise.pl?act=sect&s=355&id=amet

http://www.ametinc.com/documentation.htm

http://www.xmwelds.com/aerospace.htm

These folks are legendary for their reliability and repeatability:

http://www2.liburdi.com/liburdiautomation/index.php

http://www2.liburdi.com/liburdiautomation/products.php

This is a system similar (Doesn't mean "The same!")in what TIP TIG can do, and is probably where the inventor got his ideas from in the first place and expanded on the original concept of the "Dabber" system:

http://www2.liburdi.com/liburdiautomation/documents/Dabber_000.pdf

http://www2.liburdi.com/liburdidimetrics/products.php

Here are some of their articles:

http://www2.liburdi.com/liburdidimetrics/pdf/Article_X34.pdf

http://www2.liburdi.com/liburdidimetrics/pdf/Article_Propulsion_Tech.pdf

I sure wish we had these puppies when I was welding pipe on Nuke subs for the USN:

http://www2.liburdi.com/liburdidimetrics/pdf/Link_Issue1.pdf

Here's another interesting article from the April 2006 issue of the welding Journal on Variable polarity arc welding of Aluminum:

http://www2.liburdi.com/liburdidimetrics/pdf/Welding_Journal_Welding_Aluminum_Pipe_and_Tube_with_VP.pdf

You may also find this link quite educational as well:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/21294416/TALAT-Lecture-4201-Arc-welding-processes-TIG-Plasma-arc-MIG

You also mentioned in another post that you were experiencing some difficulty in certain wire feed problems and I thought of this type of wire feeder:

http://www.cweldtech.com/Literature/WF-100_Literature.pdf

You may also want to network with these folks:

http://www.criaq.aero/index_ve.asp

Here's another good link:

http://www.pro-fusiononline.com/

Have you by any chance see this company's line of orbital welding equipment yet?:

http://www.mkprod.com/Prod_sub_Orbital.htm

Well, I hope you find these resources at the very least helpful in establishing a better overall view of what is out there, what research is going on to a certain extent and what the TIP TIG process eally entails and why it is uniquely different than whatever else has been offered currently... You'll also have a better idea of what it's clear advantages are when compared to just a standard hot wire TIG feeding system as well. There's probably more out there to look at but I'm sure you'll see a bunch of stuff if you're going to the show, so enjoy the reads! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 11-14-2009 23:02
I challenge the system with my left hand and occasionally my right!!!!  The welding glove has been thrown down.   LOL!
Parent - By bozaktwo1 (***) Date 11-16-2009 17:52
Isn't that the welding gauntlet? :)

I always liked the idea of a semi-auto TIG rig, but the technology has a way to go I think before it can be pushed into everyday use in many industries.  Also, while I haven't yet checked pricing on this TIP TIG, I am sure that I couldn't satisfy the bottom line with one.

On the lighter side, I am sure AWS is looking forward to adding a process to D1.x ;)
Parent - By Metarinka (****) Date 11-16-2009 20:39
Thanks for the info Henry I'll take a look.

I respect Ed Craig's knowledge and foresight and I've found his information sound. It's just that his style of presentation and website leave... much to be desired.
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / TIP TIG?

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