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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / One World Trade Center,built with Chinese subsidized glass
- - By NMWELDING (**) Date 11-17-2009 22:47
Just read through my current issue of United Steel Workers magazine and it says the New One WTC is being built with Chinese subsidized glass. Apparently PPG Industries spent hundreds of thousands of dollars working with architects,the New York Port Authority and others to design the glass,only to see the contract go to a Chinese company that has licensed its technology. A PPG spokesman expressed shock that the glass for the tower would be manufactured outside the United States. Where will it all end? Chinese imports of glass products have cost the U.S. nearly a third of it`s workforce since 2001. The current issue I have talks about the ongoing battles with Chinese imported paper,tires and pipe which issues I was aware of, but I did not know the glass industry was also threatened.
Parent - - By Mat (***) Date 11-18-2009 00:51
Sad as it is, the work these days tends to go to the lowest bidder.  When you have a country with so many people that are willing to work for p*ss poor wages, it's hard for any honest company on North American soil to compete.
Parent - - By Wrench Tech (**) Date 11-18-2009 02:05
Don't take too much offence here Mat but I'd like to point out that just because the Chinese people work for pi$$ poor wages it doesn't mean they're dishonest.  And BTW the job has almost ALWAYS gone to the lowest bidder - even among companies on North American soil.  Tom
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 11-18-2009 07:07
Wrench Tech   

Mat never accused anyone of being dishonest....he just used the adjective honest when vaguely referring to American companies.     Pi$$ poor wages is very relative according to the economic climate they are being paid in.   It is a little disconcerting that a project that is so deeply tied to a patriotic symbolism would not use all home country based supply and contracting top to bottom.....maybe if the Chinese companies donated the materials it would have a bit more "spiritual/emotional value" in a solidarity sort of way.   But since we owe the Chinese so much in loan notes right now, I guess we better be glad they gave us such a good value for our meager dollar.  
Parent - - By dmilesdot (**) Date 11-18-2009 09:08
Well I hope that you are sitting down....the Port Authority Transit Hub portion of the WTC is being fabricated in Spain.  Seems as though none of the US suppliers even wanted to bid on it.  Im as American as anyone but when a project like this is in the works and none of the US companies want to do it...what do you do?  Lowest bidder....thats a term that now applies world wide not just the "lowest US bidder".  The shop welders in Spain make more that shop welders in the US and the Steel is more expensive.  So how did a foreign company land this project?  I truly believe there are more politics involved that most of us know.
Dave
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 11-18-2009 14:45
I agere Dave! And the problem with China isn't so much that they have more workers to do the job as well as doing it cheaper- oh no folks!!! The real problem is the unwillingness of the government, the WTO, and all of the primary monetary markets to demand that the Chinese revalue their own currency which at the present time is so devalued that there is no way we as a nation can compete with them, and it makes the current situation insurmountable for us to overcome, as long as their currency is so unfairly devalued as it currently is!!! There is no logical reason why a country as powerful as ours is being forced to trade with a country like China without doing so on a real level playing field!!!

The problem is simple... We need to have a leadership that is "Reaganesque" in demanding that the Chinese revalue their currency, or else we will invoke very punitive protective measure that will force them to change!!! This is a very parallel situation to the situation we faced with Japan prior to WW II and we didn't blink then, and it cost us a war with them which cost us yet also let the rest of the world know just how far we were willing to go in order to protect our interests if provoked whether it be economically, or militarily or both!!!

We need to remind China that they are nothing without us!!! we cannot let them dictate terms because if we continue to do so, we might as well open up all of our borders, and surrender without even firing one bullet because that is where we are headed, and I've been saying this for years now to deaf ears who are now only considering to clean the wax out of them in order to save our republic!!! We do this and the rest will fall in line knowing once again that we are not a nation to be messed with!!!

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 11-18-2009 18:43
No one remembers how devastating economic warfare can be, and the only ones still fighting these wars are the Chinese.
They will burry us if we don’t smarten up…..and they will burry us with extreme prejudice when they know they can get away with it.
Parent - By BryonLewis (****) Date 11-19-2009 01:59 Edited 11-19-2009 02:03
I will try to be civil because this is in the "public" section of the Forum so let me try: 
China can and will do whatever they want because they have the world by the _____.  They yuan is becoming a global currency.  China is doing business with Argentina and others based on their currency.
The world needs its cheap goods and cheap labor.  Companies are in business to make profit plain and simple.  They don't care about the workers all they care about is the bottom line.  China is as much without the US as the US is without China.  Its a coexistance.  China needs our money, OPEC needs our money, and we need their products.  The days of American Imperialism is done.  We don't have the power to send the Great White Fleet around the world to intimidate other countries.  Big stick diplomacy is done.

But what the American Gov't can and should do is regulate American business to make them do the right thing for its workers.  Keep the jobs here instead of worrying about the bottom line.  There are too many super powers in the modern world.  The EU was formed to maintain the integrity of Europe as a viable entity.  South America with the help of Hugo Chavez is considering a similar plan.  India is getting richer year by year.  Not to mention China.  The 400 pound gorillas are very not as scarce as they once were.  So its going to take international diplomacy and coexistance to get anything done in the present time and even more so in the future.  America is in decline as many others are on the rise. 

Regardless of who's fault it is, Liberals, Conservatives, or little green men, it is what it is.  America feels isolated from the rest of the world because of the once "great" position that America had as one of the few super powers.  Military power doesn't matter any more.  When the biggest dog on the block gets too old, it can't fight any more and will be replaced with another.  It has happened countless times in the history of humanity.  Empires have fell more often because of their economic position than from their military strength or lack there of.

The only thing left to do is BUY ORGANIC.  :-)
Parent - By BryonLewis (****) Date 11-19-2009 02:05
IMO they should just fill the hole up and build some kind of monument/park or something on the WTC site.  From what I hear the rent in Manhattan is getting cheaper so even if the projects ever get completed they might never recoup their expenses.
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 11-19-2009 03:55
"The shop welders in Spain make more that shop welders in the US "

Are You sure about that? I know that skilled workers in Portugal make really low wages, and that is the country right next to Spain.
Of Course Mexico is right next to USA, so it could be possible.
Parent - - By Wrench Tech (**) Date 11-18-2009 14:22
Well, I mostly agree with you, Tommy.  But I do think that the bid has always gone to the lowest bidder except where there are some special conditions attached.  Competition in a free enterprise environment.  No?
Tom
Parent - - By RonG (****) Date 11-18-2009 15:32
Not to wanting to rain on any ones parade but it is fascinating to read some of the things that pass through here.

In one string, we want more jobs and in another we want more work.

Then in another we want more money and we (some of us) beat up on cheaper labor (mostly people like us with families) that under mine our standards of quality of both product and life style.

Then we all beat up on the manufacturers for going where it cost less to operate because they need to reduce operating expense to compete in a global economy that constantly demands more for less.

At the top of this dung pile is the investors beating up on the CEO’s to make more money and the only way they can conceive of doing it is to take it a way from the ones who want more money????????

So it seems to take on a swaying motion back and forth I guess. For a time the working people prosper and get fat and become investors and now its so top heavy it can’t substance it’s self and it all come tumbling down and then begins to repeat the same thing except with new faces.

I saw this once in a Fire Ant colony along side a creek. We shoved the whole thing in the water (accidently) and it was truly fascinating to watch them do just as we do, vigorously pushing and climbing on top of one another trying to keep our heads above water.
Parent - - By Mat (***) Date 11-19-2009 00:51 Edited 11-19-2009 01:01
I could have worded what I said better, but that was far from what I was thinking at the time!

I guess what I should have said was that wages are based on the cost of living and the quality/quantity/cost triangle.  In the end, what it comes down to is, the final decision is made by the primary contracting companies on where they outsource the work too.  At the same time, I would have thought that with things being so slow lately, the work would go to companies on local soil. :)
Parent - By RonG (****) Date 11-19-2009 17:32
I doubt it Mat, It's all been said over and over again here and a thousand other places but no one really listens mostly because deep down inside the already know what it is all about but can't bring them selves to deal with it, some refuse and some like me take a long time to catch on.

When things grow, they tend to re-shape them selves to support the added weight, re-shaping stress other areas so the change is endless. Then a storm happens and some (a lot) are un-able to with stand it.

The real culprit is our own ambition and unwillingness to settle for status-quo. We want to improve our selves and make a better situation for our children and we will let nothing will stand in our way.

Every thing seems to has a life cycle it keeps repeating over and over adapting to a changing environment. Vicious circle I guess.

Oh well, lunch break has ended time to change from waxing philosophical to listen to more Welders moaning.

Great thing about this Forum is you guys can ether listen (read) or not to what I have to say but you can’t interrupt until I have finished.

Just remember if some one is causing you grief that some one holds a measure of control over you, what ya gonna do about that?
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / One World Trade Center,built with Chinese subsidized glass

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