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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Verifying light intensity without a light meter
- - By jwright650 (*****) Date 11-30-2009 16:41
How can I reliably verify 100fc without a calibrated light meter in hand? Do any of you old NDT salts have any tricks up your sleeve to help me out?
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 11-30-2009 17:24
Ok you will need a rubber band, a Moth and a beer bottle……. Just kiddin
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 11-30-2009 17:33
no duct tape?
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 11-30-2009 17:47
lol im sorry that i have never hear of anything but i will ask around
MDK
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 11-30-2009 20:12
preparing just in case?  or did someone already question it.

There may some type of formula if you know the bulb size and volts to the flashlight for instance? or a drop light, but the ambient lighting in the shop is another story.  I used to work for a lab that had the digital meter, it did both visual white light and black UV light for MT/PT.  That was awhile ago, and a diffferent state.

Good luck.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 11-30-2009 20:15
Yeah, just in case. I know the question could pop up sometime and I don't have any way to calibrate the meter(homemade), so I figured if I could prove the lighting requirements without the use of a meter...then I would have it covered. I may just have to purchase one and have it calibrated every year.
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-30-2009 20:41
I believe there is a way utilizing the Io1 Io2 formula. There is another way utilized by Section XI IWA 2310 (I think it is) lower case letter card if you have the ability to reference an off code. Give me a little bit to dig and see what I come up with, both of those are from memory which isn't working to well after a night shift.

Regards,
Gerald
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 11-30-2009 21:46
Does the formula include how much dirt and grime has accumulated on the bulb?

Hg
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 11-30-2009 23:35
No.
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 11-30-2009 22:45
I just got a new one myself i sent the old out for calibration and they rejected it.
Then i needed to find some1 that is A2LA accredited to calibrate it.
i did get my purchaser to find a supplier that sent it to another facility for calibration, but now im thinking that i didnt put them on my supplier list ......
I dont think its a good idea to not have them on my list, nor is it a good idea to have the calibration date before the approval.
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 12-01-2009 03:23
I've done some checking, and don't believe the calcs will do you any good.
The Closest thing your going to find is out of section XI.
IWA-2211 VT-1 Examination
(a) VT-1 examination is conducted to detect discontinuities
and imperfections on the surface of components,
including such conditions as cracks, wear, corrosion,
or erosion.
(b) The VT-1 examination procedure shall be demonstrated
capable of resolving characters in accordance
with Table IWA-2211-1.
(c) Direct visual examination distance requirements
shall be as specified in Table IWA-2211-1
........FC...........Max distance(ft/mm)..max height of characters inch/(mm)
VT-1 50...........2 (600).....................................................0.044 (1.0)
VT-3 50............ N/A........................................................0.105 (3.0)

NOTES:
(1) Resolution of the specified characters can be used in lieu of illumination measurement to verify illumination
adequacy.
(2) For procedure demonstration, a test chart or card containing text with some lowercase characters,
without an ascender or descender (e.g., a, c, e, o), that meet the specified height requirements is required.
Measurements of the test chart or card shall be made once before its initial use with an optical comparator
(10x or greater) or other suitable instrument to verify that the height of the lowercase characters
without an ascender or descender meets the specified requirements.

Thats probably as close as your going to get without a light meter, and pretty much only good for Section XI.

Then there is the visual criteria in Section V.
With some fancy wording and if a referencing code section calls out article 9, you could use the procedure qualification requirement of T921.2
and T921.3 in particular.
T-921.3 Demonstration. The procedure shall contain
or reference a report of what was used to demonstrate that
the examination procedure was adequate. In general, a
fine line 1⁄32 in. (0.8 mm) or less in width, an artificial
imperfection or a simulated condition, located on the surface
or a similar surface to that to be examined, may be
considered as a method for procedure demonstration. The
condition or artificial imperfection should be in the least
discernable location on the area surface to be examined to
validate the procedure.

Qual a procedure as per table T921 and go from there.

Take that with the requirements of T-952
T-952 Direct Visual Examination
Direct visual examination may usually be made when
access is sufficient to place the eye within 24 in. (600 mm)
of the surface to be examined and at an angle not less than
30 deg to the surface to be examined. Mirrors may be
used to improve the angle of vision, and aids such as
a magnifying lens may be used to assist examinations.
Illumination (natural or supplemental white light) for the
specific part, component, vessel, or section thereof being
examined is required. The minimum light intensity at the
examination surface/site shall be 100 footcandles
(1000 lux). The light source, technique used, and light
level verification is required to be demonstrated one time,
documented, and maintained on file.

It's a one time qualification.

Technically you could simply rent a calibrated light meter and write up a procedure
for lighting on a one time basis. Back that procedure up with either the lower case
letter card per Section XI IWA, and or the 1/32 grey line per T921.3.

Those are the only options I am aware of.

Regards,
Gerald
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 12-01-2009 12:03
Guys, I appreciate the effort...looks like I will need a meter.

Any suggestions or sources for an inexpensive meter?
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 12-01-2009 17:01
mine was around 190.00 nist and a2la cal.
Extech
more info if you want
Parent - - By trapdoor (**) Date 12-01-2009 21:17
I bought this one for my MT kit last year.
http://www.professionalequipment.com/extech-pocket-digital-light-meter-401027/digital-light-meters/  
I had it clibrated and it seems to do the job.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 12-02-2009 16:47
Excellent!...that is exactly what I was looking for at a price we can live with. Thank you for finding that for me. Everywhere that I had checked had them listed for much more money.
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 12-03-2009 22:18
John, I don't know "how much meter" you need but we've bought some from Extech, out of Waltham Mass.  Extech seems to have a good range of meters- from basic on up and you can buy them calibrated.  They can also recheck the calibration later on.

I don't know if they're cheapest or best, but that's another source.
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 12-03-2009 22:54
I got mine from extech in waltham.
Around $190 or so
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 12-04-2009 15:28
Thanks guys for the extra sources.....

My Level III is now questioning the accuracy requirements on the meter...several that I've looked into have tolerances of anywhere from plus or minus 3 to 5%. (all of these were under $100)

I'll post up when he finds out what is an acceptable tolerance considering what I need the meter for. At first my reaction was "is this really all that important?", but I can appreciate his eagerness to help me remove any future questioning over whether we can meet the light requirement or any questions associated with the meter used to verify this.
Parent - By eekpod (****) Date 12-04-2009 17:48
I agree with you, is this REALLY that important? no... tell him to work with you or you'll find a level III who will.
Parent - By waynekoe (**) Date 12-05-2009 23:19
John, take a 3 x 5 reference card, type, in 8 point bold, the phrase "100 candle power" on it, place the card on the desk, if you can read the card, o.k, if not, turn around three times in rapid success and try it again, if you still can't read it, get more light.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Verifying light intensity without a light meter

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