First of all let me say thanks to all you guys that have helped me.
I have found the forum to be a great resource.
Now, I have another question about ASME Section IX. I am looking for criteria on how much undercut is allowed on a performance test for welder certification. Under AWS D1.1, before the coupons are cut the weldment must pass a visual inspection where the allowances for undercut are made very clear. Are there any criteria for undercut when qualifying welders under ASME Section IX, and if so where can I find them?
Thanks Again,
Louis
QW-194 Addresses the acceptance criteria.
"Welds shall show complete joint penetration with complete fusion of weld metal and base metal."
The above paragraph is refernced from QW 302.4 which is a subparagraph of QW 302 (Type of test required)
Hope this helps
G Austin
http://www.weldinginspectionsvcs.com
Most companies also apply the criteria used for visual inspection of the welds that are made in production, such as ANSI/ASME B31.1. ASME IX contains the minimum requirements and the manufacturer can always choose to be more stringent than the minimum.
Marty
Very good point. I have never looked at a weld using only the criteria referneced above.
Of course I have made a few that could only be acceptable by that criteria :)
Have a nice day
in reference to this post does complete joint penetration mean that the root minimum is flush, with no suck back allowed? if so what would be the maximum penetration?
As far as I know, these requirements are not addressed in ASME Sec IX. If a weld has "Suckback) it can still have complete joint penetration, just not a full cross section of weld metal.
I am not familiar with ASME B31.1. I will look into getting that as a supplement to Section IX. I am more familiar with AWS D1.1 and perhaps this is confusing me.
I have read the part in ASME Section IX to which pipewelder_1999 refers to and I don’t understand how you get any reference to undercut out of QW-194.
You can have complete joint penetration and complete fusion and still have massive undercut problems. Can't you?
This doesn’t mean its not there somewhere else, but the only place I found mention of undercut in Section IX was in the definitions. After using D1.1 it just seemed logical to me that if a weld could be turned down for too bad or too much undercut that the criteria would have been in the code or at least a reference to ASME B31.1 would have been made. Maybe my logic is just fowled up.
Thanks you guys, very much,
Louis
If I am testing welders for a project that is ASME Sec I. (Internal concavity is allowed). I will use that visual acceptance criteria and inform the welder of the acceptance criteria.
This is only if the company I am working has not already identified visual acceptance criteria.
ASME Sec IX is a very general document with basic guidelines for welder and procedure qualification.
AWD D1.1 and ASME Sec IX approch qualififcation with different views which sometimes causes me confusion.
Louis,
you just have to be carefull when your working with different codes.....one may allow something that the other will not......B31.1 maximum undercut is 1/32 and D1.1 is 1/16......even some of the AWS codes have different acceptance criteria
To make sure I understand you. If I qualify a SWPS from Section IX and I get B31.1 and use its criteria for visual inspection prior to bending, along with Section IX after bending, I should be conforming to ASME code when qualifying my students. Yes? No?
Keep in mind there is no company involved other than my school and no production work going on.
I'm simply looking for some criteria to evaluate my student's welding so they can have a chance to qualify to ASME code.
Louis
Yes. They will be qualified as far as ASME Sec IX is concerned. They will be qualified for welding at the school.
Have a nice day
G Austin
Hi Louis,
To answer your question- Yes, as stated by Pipewelder_1999.
In answer to your original question based on my experience with Sec. IX, here is what I’d recommend to you for testing your students.
1. If you’re testing strictly to Sec. IX, follow QW-194 as Pipewelder_1999 suggested. Don’t interpret any more or less into what the paragraph states. Not only is undercut not included in this paragraph, nor is depth of penetration, or the amount of reinforcement included as part of the visual acceptance criteria.
2. If you desire to test your students where undercut, depth of penetration, and weld reinforcement are integral parts of an acceptance criteria, then I’d suggest picking a common code of construction, one that your students may weld to one day, such as the B31.3, Sec. VIII, D1.1, or B31.1 and use that visual acceptance criteria.
Louis,
The knowledgeble folks at ASME have indeed been pretty unclear about undercut.
I could find no reference to "Undercut" in Section I, VIII, or IX. However after reviewing the details concerning "Elongated Indications" (see Sect. VIII, UW-51 (b) (2) and "Linear Indications" (see Sect I, A-260.3 (a) and "Undercut" (see B31.1, 136.4.2 (A.2), I would "interpret" the maximum allowable undercut on ASME weldments as 1/32" deep and 1/4" long. I would also say that any length undercutt deeper tha 1/32" would be unacceptable while undercutt that is less than 1/32" deep by any length would be at the discretion of the inspector depending on the servivibility of the particular weldment. An Industry standard for Pipe Welders to repair minor undercutt(less than 1/32" deep) is to flatten the sharp edge with flat face of a file, which is a fast and simple repair. However many inexpierienced Welders have a tendency to turn the file up on its sharp edge and basically cut a wider groove along the weld toe, which creates a defect requiring weld repair. For this reason some Shops don't allow filing at all in order to prevent costly repairs.
Anyway, there's my two cents worth.
I hope someone out there more familiar with the code can offer a more defined interpretation.
Tim Gary
By apply
Date 02-13-2017 05:02
Refer
Interpretation: IX-01-03
Subject: QW-194, Visual Examination
Date Issued: January 3, 2001
File: BC00-519
Question: Is a welder's performance qualification test coupon in which undercut is present acceptable, provided that the rest of the examinations and tests are acceptable?
Reply: Yes. However, manufacturers may disqualify welders based on QW-301.2 when discontinuities such as undercut and porosity do not comply with the quality requirement of the manufacturer.
