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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Toyota Tundras , Nissan Titans, Multi quip welders
- - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-18-2010 19:51 Edited 01-18-2010 20:05
Just a quick survey for Lawrence how many of you rig welders out there are riggen up Jap(anese) Trucks
How bout jap(anese) welding maschines lmao
Jap(anese) regulators
Japan(ese) Grinders
what are you driving on the right  of way today???
Parent - - By Wrench Tech (**) Date 01-18-2010 20:07
Now Joe, why would anybody respond that they're using anyyhing not made in the USA.  Knowing your views on the subject wouldn't that be looking for abuse?
Tom
Parent - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-18-2010 20:47
lol point taken  . im just saying never seen a jap rig
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 01-18-2010 20:15
Joe,
  I hate to break it to you (maybe you already know) but whether one is running Lincoln, Miller, Ford, Chevy, they all have foreign (generally Asian) parts in them. Sad, but non the less fact.

jrw159
Parent - - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-18-2010 20:45
yeah but at least were trying. im just making the point that ive
never seen a tundra or titan rigged up or a multiquip on a pipeline
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 01-18-2010 22:19
Joe,
  I have to disagree. I have spoke to several different reps from both blue and red. The only thing they are trying to do is stay just withing the percentage allowed to be able to claim "Made in the USA". Trust me, if they could farm out 50% and still be able to make that claim, they would in a heartbeat.

I am not trying to start a war, but the simple fact is they want to make it for as cheap as possible and sell it for as much as the "Made in the USA" sticker will bring. And we as consumers eat it up. We are slowly but surely killing ourselves, both from a manufacturing and consumer aspect.

jrw159
Parent - - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-18-2010 22:42
Like i said corporate greed is killing our country. we cannot compete with chinease labor it's impossible.
so american companies will continyue to ship our jobs overseas unless goverment leglislation stops them
no matter how hard or fast we work we cannot compete period
Parent - By Blaster (***) Date 01-18-2010 22:51
They have 3 times our human resources, work for about 10% of our wages, have a government that is supportive and helpful in setting up new manufacturing operations, and generally have more lax environmental regulations.

Work 5 times as hard and it still won't be near enough.

American consumer decisions will determine the fate of our economy. 
Parent - - By 522029 (***) Date 01-19-2010 03:18 Edited 01-19-2010 03:20
Joe,

I have never seen a "1/2" ton Ford, Dodge, or Chevy rigged out on a pipeline.   Just so YOU know, "1/2" ton Ford, Dodge, or Chevy would be the equivalant of the Tundra or the Titan.

Griff
Parent - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-19-2010 03:49
thet make a 3/4 ton model
Parent - - By shorthood2006 (****) Date 01-19-2010 12:20
i was welding for MAXLINE PIPELINE from Waukomis , Oklahoma. A guy showed up with a 2007 Ford F150 and a Lincoln Ranger 250 and tested for Maxline and passed the test.. Mr. Maxwell hired him and the kid welded for 6 weeks before they ran him offf.. Damnest thing i ever seen. That would have given me a complex to be the only one on the line with a riglett truck and  air cooled welder.
Parent - By 522029 (***) Date 01-19-2010 12:23
I do not doubt that a bit. However, it is is not very common.

Griff
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 01-18-2010 20:47
Not to mention that the technology Miller and Lincoln are putting in their welding machines are non patent infringing technologies that Panasonic and OTC were using years ago. Panasonic and OTC are not trying to break into the traditional pipeline markets where Lincoln has dominated. At least not to my knowledge. But in the high tech stuff they are way ahead.
Why is that?
Personally I think that instead of us whining about how they're unfairly kickin our azzes maybe we should actually apply some of that good old fashioned American ingenuity and recover our own markets without protectionist legislation. That is IF that good old ingenuity is still around.
Parent - - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-18-2010 21:10
I don't think theres any jap technology in an ole red face or sa 25o shorthood.
How many true bikers you see riding a harley copy made by honda yamaha etc.
support your country
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 01-18-2010 21:15
I do support my country. By advocating that Americans get up off their lazy fat asses and start producing again like I know they can. Not advocating protectionist philosophies that time and time again have only caused responses in kind that cause lots of people to suffer and lose jobs.
Go ahead, piss off the Chinese and see what happens when they pull their money out of our economy.
Parent - By Blaster (***) Date 01-18-2010 21:30
Your household owes China about $7,000  ($799,000,000,000 debt to China / 115,000,000 households in US). 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

Our debt to China increases about 10% annually.

The average American household sends about $2,260 to China per year in the form of trade deficit purchasing ($260,000,000,000 annually / 115,000,000 households in the US)

The money we provide in the form of trade deficit purchases they can turn around use to buy more national debt that our legislators continue to create.
Parent - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-18-2010 21:33
what r we suppose to do work for min wage to try and compete against a country that pays workers next to nothing.
how much steel does china import from the USA ?  All these foreign countries have limits on the amount of product
imported.  I just feel that the USA should have the same type limits.  Obama will just print some more money lmao
Our national debt is a Joke. what jobs were lost when President Reagen put an embargo on foreign pipe years ago.
thank god some of our govt contractors stilll demand a % of the material to be domestic.
Parent - By JLWelding (***) Date 01-19-2010 02:46
Amen on that, until the federal reserve is abolished, this country will continue to go to crap until nothing is left. And that is not a left wing thing or right, its a fact. That is how the govt is going to control the economy, they just did it. Hello, and now your paying the bank for there loan. See how they turn it around and make you think it was a good idea.
Parent - - By spots (**) Date 01-18-2010 22:52
Please define "true biker"

Is it some dentist riding a $30K Harley around Sturgis and trailering it back to his house in the suburbs where he watches "Wild Hogs" and fondles himself?

Or is it the crazy Irishman doing 100+ over cobblestones during the Isle of Man TT.

Perhaps it is the 16 year old kid with his first 500cc Honda grinding the edges off his pegs on a twisty back road...
Parent - - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-18-2010 23:02
love the fondles himself comment. an old biker once told me that riding a
foreign bike was like having sex with the same gender feels great while youre
doing it till someone actually  see's you.  By true biker i meangt the hells angel
type who loves his bike more than his woman
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 01-19-2010 02:34
I only ever knew 1 color club biker, He rode a BSA.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 01-18-2010 21:30
Js55,
  You make a good point that has been on my mind for a while now. When I spoke with reps from both blue and red they said that some components "could not" be manufactured here. Not "are not" but "could not". Why is it that they "can not" be manufactured here? Will it cut into the profits too much? Are we not capable? For the price paid for the blue and red I would think it could be done. IMHO of course, and I have been wrong before and will be wrong again.

I truly believe that in the near future the welding machines will go the same route as the filler metal and the internal components, overseas. :-(

jrw159
Parent - - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-18-2010 21:40
you all remember when lincoln tried using a aluminum copper blend in there windings trying to save
these machines were ****!!  They went back to the old style with the lincoln classic series
suppose to be like an ole red face. close but no cigar. of course we still have the technology
it's corporate greed trying to save a buck.  hell lincoln probably already has a plant in china
Parent - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-18-2010 23:13
someone else already posted the link to lincoln plants in china
four of them making  consumables and machines
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-19-2010 08:50 Edited 01-19-2010 08:56
They still use the aluminum and copper windings Joe! The only difference is they made the alloy better ROTFLMFAO!!! :) :) :) How do I know this? I was at the Lincoln plant in Cleveland back in the end of September of last year (2009) and asked them that very same question!!! :) :) :) The reason why those machines are still well put together is because of the incentive plan the workers can profit from by doing what Js55 mentioned... Which is getting off their lazy azzes and using some good old fashioned American ingenuity from the workers themselves when building some PRIMO Power supplies!!!

If more corporations did this, things would be much different IMHO!!! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-19-2010 14:35
I was told by a lincoln rep that the lincoln classic windings were the same as the ole red face.
that the only difference was in the electronics . automatic rev up and such  instead of the old
pin. anyone else have any info on this
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-19-2010 17:06 Edited 01-21-2010 02:49
Ask him when was the last time he went to visit Cleveland! ;) I asked the factory workers and their supervisors themselves, and that's a whole lot more reliable than what a lincoln rep would lead me to believe... Some of them are real good and some are so full of themselves, it makes you wonder how they got their jobs and how they keep them... Ohhh yeah I forgot, all they need to do is to sell beyond their quota and poof they keep their jobs!!! ;) ;) ;)

Btw, the old alloy mix was approximately 70% Aluminum and 30% Copper + some other metals and elements for specific mechanical and electrical properties... All they did was reverse the percentages somewhat as well as adding some more copper, and add some other elements to enhance the electrical properties and Voila!!! They got performance very close to the older type of windings without the extra costs involved for using such high quantities of Copper. ;) This is what one of the engineers explained to our group as we were given the tour around the plant in Cleveland.

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 01-18-2010 23:33
I only own Japanese vehicles (motorcycles included, don't get me started on Harley) Currently I own two motorcycles,  A nice Honda Magna 750 and an ol' Kawasaki ex 550 (old ninja) Before that I had a Suzuki B-King, a Honda CBR F4, and a yamaha V-star 1800 also rode a massive single cylinder Suzuki from the 70's whos' name I'm forgetting (Odd bike). I almost bought a triumph speed triple last week... but that's another story. In my opinion their is no American made motorcycles left for daily use after Harley killed Buell. I commute 100% of the time via motorcycle and I'm not interested in some off-balanced, stuck in the past, over priced, under powered Harley. I ride both cruisers and sportbikes, looking to get a naked standard for my next one. Guess how many American made nekkids there are? 0

All my cars were Toyota, and after having a chance to visit and study at Toyota city,  I think I'll stick with them for future use (but I like to research a bunch before I purchase, I'm not huge on brand loyalty)
I don't own a rig nor intend to, so I have no buying preference or market knowledge.

I also own a 73 fiat spyder 124, but that car is a maintenance lesson :) and it was free

When I was in Japan I saw the equivalent of a welding rig in the back of a light commercial flatbed, but I never saw a big rig on a frame over 1 ton.  I'm guessing by the relative size of the country and the way they have their infrastructure, they have a much smaller demand for oil service type welding rigs.  Still though they must use something there to do off road work and they do  have a large (for their land area) lumber industry and managed forest. Those guys must use some sort of welding rigs for repair work. Do the Japanese or Europeans even produce Pickup trucks in the size and shape and fitness of use that Americans make for our welding rigs?

To those who have overseas experience in the middle east, Europe or south east Asia, what platform are welding rigs built on? I feel like Americans alone kinda lead the path on private and individual purchase of large frame pickup trucks. Not bad, just different.

Anyways in terms of other products. I actually thought that Americans have historically lead the way on welding technology, as we are the worlds largest producer and consumer of welded products (Cat alone uses over 1million pounds of weld wire a year) I haven't heard or seen any Japanese welding machines stateside for commercial or even private use, I don't think anyone has made big inroads past Red or Blue and sometimes yellow. I have heard of Japanese Car manufactures requiring the use of Japanese welding machines and robots in plants state side, but I don't know where one would even source a Panasonic welder.

I'm tired of hearing all this "sky is falling" buy american Jingo-ism. Either we go back to a protectionist economy and impose import Tariff's on China or we live under the rhetoric of free trade and see where market forces take us. steep import tariff's in Japan on finished goods has worked very well for the resource poor country. The trick is quality, technology and a high degree of value added.  America still does well on the second two, just not in the manufacturing sector.
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-19-2010 09:02
Panasonic and OTC have been around for decades in the US Joel, and not just in the automotive sector either but like you mentioned, they really haven't made the kind of dent they would probably like to in the US and it may just be because they want to maintain their 'Niche"  type of market status for the moment, or not... Now Fronius is starting to make inroads with their very high quality German welding equipment, and it's about time IMHO!!! :) :) :) They are also making inroads in the defense sectors as well but, that's on the QT!!! :) :) :) Btw, they're Red too. :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By 522029 (***) Date 01-19-2010 03:12
Hey Joe,

Why didn't you answer my question in your other post?

Griff
Parent - - By 522029 (***) Date 01-19-2010 03:20
Oh Joe,

The ugly American is again raising its ugly head.

Griff
Parent - By strother (***) Date 01-19-2010 03:25
Ugly American???
Parent - - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-19-2010 03:59
the other post was about a brazilian buying american products in brazil. he has few options as his country is not a manufacturing giant.
all im saying is buy american when living in america. and for the govt to level the playing field regarding imports and exports.
if we import 50 million of goods from any country we should be able to  export the same amount to that country. but thats not
the deal our ignorant politicians agreed to. proud to be an ugly american who was born in scotland but i don't live there so
isupport the country that butters my bread
Parent - By Cumminsguy71 (*****) Date 01-19-2010 12:00 Edited 01-19-2010 12:05
I think I said something in another post about Lincoln electrodes and questioned there "American" madeness(my new word) and Pipeliner posted the link showing their expansion in China.

Toyota is looking at competing in the light duty truck market, 1 ton market. Believe I posted something when someone asked the question some time ago, this was several years ago but you can see it's on Toyota's mind,

http://www.insideline.com/toyota/tundra/2007-sema-toyota-tundra-diesel-dually-project-truck.html

Reading through the article again this truck would out haul and out pull one of those f650 or chevy top kick things and not be as big and lumbering to move around a jobsite.

Have to defend the opening comment Joe about Japanese everything. I'm thinking the Japanese wish that they still dominated the American market(on goods) like they did back in the 70's and 80's when all the Americans were saying, "everything's made in Japan, wish I could buy American". I think both populations are now being overrun buy "Everything is made in China" syndrome. Lot's of stuff in Japan has been shifted to Chinese manufacturing, have had some things sent from relatives from across the pond and it says, "made in China". They are getting the China wammy too.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 01-19-2010 06:10
Sorry Joe,

Don't know why the survey is for me.. I'm not looking for a rig truck.. In fact:

Don't know anything about Rig trucks... Maybe I'm not qualified to post on the forum if I've never been a hand on a cross country pipeline?

My squak was about unskilled labor and inflated wages... and the quality of some American auto products. Along with your notion that government should restrict peoples freedom to purchase what they want with thier own money...  You use all caps when you talk about CAPITALISIM... But you put the lie to it every time you invoke government control of what is bought and sold.

The only GM vehicle that isn't a 45K hybred and approaches 40 mpg is imported from Korea.  Some folks just want a car that gets good fuel milege and lasts a long time.

I ended up buying a Nissan built in Indiana..  Assembled by Americans..   Bottom of the line entry level car..  Comfy and good milege.. and cheap enough to pay cash so I don't line the pockets of those evil corperate bastage bankers with my interest on a 5 year auto loan.. 

I really wanted an American Car..  and I came as close as I could.  I spent alot of time thinking about it.

I think you will find that the forum was polled just about a month ago and German grinders were favored by most... (of course except for the wildcats the pipe guys use)

I like Victor and Smith products for regulators... But honestly haven't checked to see if they are made in the U.S.... Have you?  what did you discover?

I also make efforts to buy U.S. made consumables for the school whos budget I manage.  I learned some pretty good lessons over the years by getting run through the ringer with bad import stuff..  Learned that one the hard way.  Much more conscious of buying U.S.
Parent - - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-19-2010 14:43
you were the one bashing american products as inferior quality. i said i support capitalism
in this country and the govt needs to step in and level the playing field so americans can compete
chevy now makes more vechicles getting 30 mpg than honda or toyota if you believe the howie long commercials.
and yes you are more than qualified to post here as am I  or anyone else who wishes to voice his or her opinion
such as it may be Joe
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 01-19-2010 14:47
Government stepping in to level the playing field is the very definition of Socialisim.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...

Darn right I bashed American Autos... If they were as good as the imports people would buy more of them... Simple as that.

Don't need the Government to force me to spend my money on one thing vs another.

Better products will sell more Chevys than Nationalisim and guilt trips.
Parent - - By joe pirie (***) Date 01-19-2010 15:09
No socialism is where the Govt owns the companies producing the products and controls their distribution

socialism [ˈsəʊʃəˌlɪzəm]
n
1. (Economics) an economic theory or system in which the means of production, distribution, and exchange are owned by the community collectively, usually through the state. It is characterized by production for use rather than profit, by equality of individual wealth, by the absence of competitive economic activity, and, usually, by government determination of investment, prices, and production levels Compare capitalism
2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) any of various social or political theories or movements in which the common welfare is to be achieved through the establishment of a socialist economic system
3. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) (in Leninist theory) a transitional stage after the proletarian revolution in the development of a society from capitalism to communism: characterized by the distribution of income according to work rather than need. .

By leveling the playing field like i aleady stated is that the countries we import from also have to accept the goods we export in an equal amount.  as blaster pointed out this is just not the case
my comments might sound socialistic but it is reality that no company in the united states can compete with the cheap labor in china.
.
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 01-19-2010 16:28
These arguments are old, old, old. The dictionary definition of socialism was destroyed in the 40's through the work of Nobel prize economists such as FA Hayek (recommended reading; Road to Serfdom). Nobody but the diehards still advocate such extreme purist definitions. They advocate watered down versions of it. 'Market socialsim', 'competetive socialism', blah, blah, blah. It is still subject to the EXACT same failure mechanisms as the extreme form. Its just been repackaged and prettied up for a new generation. The devil is beauracratic control whether or not the gov owns the pink slip.
Parent - - By Blaster (***) Date 01-19-2010 15:14
Saw an add yesterday.... at least one model of KIA is being made in USA (I think it was Georgia).
Parent - By supermoto (***) Date 01-19-2010 15:52
I love how things get off topic, makes for interesting reading and you can see how some people get so defensive.

I personally have owned over 25 vehicles in the past ten years between me and my wife.  They all have been american and asian, but those darn japs just keep on making a higher quality longer lasting vehicle.  I mean all american companies get parts made in other countries as we make parts for them.  GM has an Izuzu diesel engine because their last design was the worst excuse for a diesel ever.  For what ever reason my jap cars/ trucks just keep on ticking and all I do is change fluids.

But you do need to give it up to american trucks for having a much better work horse and more comfortable riding cars, unless you compare to the european manufacturers, they have performance, quality, and luxury in their cars.

Anyways keep the off topic comments going...
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 01-19-2010 17:10
Btw,Kia is Hyundai! ;) In other words, Hyundai is their parent company. ;) Oh yeah, At least some of them are made in Alabama.

Respectfully,
Henry
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / Toyota Tundras , Nissan Titans, Multi quip welders

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