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Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / miller aerowave
- - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 01-29-2010 06:00
Anybody have any experience good or bad with a Miller Aerowave?  I am checking a few out, but a little suspicious since they are not that common.  I know at one time it was "sposed" to be a high end CC machine, but they have been discontinued.  Wonder why...reliability problems??  Sure has some sweet features.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 01-29-2010 06:03
Tommy.

I was an Aerowave beta tester...  Can tell you alot.

Will post more tomorrow..
Parent - By Blaster (***) Date 01-29-2010 15:27
I demo'd an Aerowave for a week or two when they first came out... mid 90s I guess.

The a-symetric wave feature is nice, as is the extended balance control and variable output frequency when welding aluminum.

All of those controls seemed to hit a point of dimishing returns long before they maxed out.  Better to have it and not need it though.

I am sure their high cost was a big factor in them not catching too well when they first came out.  I think I remember hearing about some reliability issues as well.... but that was some time ago and is a bit fuzzy now.

I have an Dynasty 700 now that I like quite a bit.  Great on heavier sections.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 01-29-2010 17:56
They are good power supplies.

They do most of what the Dynasty 350 and 700 does.

We did have issues with circuit boards but Miller was good about replacement (may be an issue now that they are out of production)

DC low amp arc starting was poor...  The capicator discharge (in place of HF) was not perfected... You cannot sneak up on the foot pedal,, If you do there is alot of chatter... You need to set the current levels so you can go down on the pedal with authority to get a crisp start.

The Aysemmetric power delivary is cute and infinatly adjustable... But the fact of the matter is that 99% of production alumninum GTAW does not need this type of current manipulation...  The frequency control can really make arc wander subside at low AC current levels and the control of current on both +  and - sides of the half cycle can make for some fillets that are much smaller than with traditional power supplies.

If you did a fourm search with my name and aerowave   you would find a chronicle of about 10 years of blathering about the thing...

If the price is right... Why not..     If the price is comparable to Dynasty which has more features and is more robust with better reliability... go with Dynasty.
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 01-29-2010 22:42
I am looking at snagging each one I am looking at for less then 1k and they look well taken care of...I will never find a dynasty at that price unless its in a back alley somewhere.   I thought it odd that it has the asymmetric controls as well as a balance knob ala synchrowave.  But I have found uses for that in certain welding situations occasionally, sometimes I would use the pulse controls to help with pen and bead profiles on weird parts.   I would be perfectly happy with a synchrowave 350lx but I am trying to stretch ye old greenbacks as far as I can.  Only thing stopping me is I have heard of "board" issues about these somewhere in cobweb filled head....just looking to confirm.

since I got some time before commitment I will go peruse your "blathering" on the subject.

THX
Parent - By TRC (***) Date 01-29-2010 22:51
Hey TJ, I have a lot of hours with my Aerowave, PM me and I'll give you my phone no. If your used to a Syncrowave the discussion will be way to long to do on the forum- Ted
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 01-30-2010 00:17
Hello Tommy, in the "for what it's worth department" I remember being told that Boeing received 75 or 80 of these machines. At the time they were the "ultimate" GTAW powersource..... capable of unbelievable feats of grandeur, I do honestly believe that was true for the time period.
     After receiving the machines, the majority of the Boeing users were so frustrated with all the buttons, dials, etc., and weren't willing to accept change so they simply refused to use them and dug out their old machines and set the Aerowaves off in the corner. Not too long after that I believe Boeing surplused the lot of them. I pretty much contend that if an individual takes the time to figure out through your own personal experience how the machine will react, that you could likely have a very nice machine for yourself. Certainly, Lawrence has some definite ins as to the drawbacks and highlights of these so you should certainly consider his comments with a great deal of seriousness. There's my $.02 on the subject. Best regards, Allan
- - By EVWELDER (**) Date 01-31-2010 05:53
Tommy the company I used to work for had 18 of these machines they were good machines but the IGBT boards were always going out and once the warranty was out you were out of luck! I love the machine they just could not hold up but Miller let us test the dynasty 700 before it came out and that machine was great it has b
three years and no problems with the machine compared to the aerowaves would last anywhere from 6 months to a year then go out then we always had trouble getting them repaired. Like I said I love the machine they just didn't hold up if you are getting a good deal and not gonna use it all day everyday go for it but if you are haveing to pay close to what a dynasty would cost I would go with the dynasty they do not have those boards in them.
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 02-01-2010 23:55
Well after a lot of research including what I have learned on this forum....I am declining the opportunity to get an aerowave.   Ted let me know that they do not stick weld well at all, but he raves about its ac tig capability.   I rekon that is what these machines are really focused on is the ability to manipulate the A/c wave accurately.   For the money spent and consideration of the work done, I would be better served with a different power source.   One machine sold, the other has the owner stuck on more then I am willing to pay.   I really appreciate the commentary, especially the phone call with Ted, so I was not flying blind so to speak.   If I had plenty of room for multiple power sources and was sure I would get into serious work on AL and MG ...I would be sorely tempted to get this machine anyway despite the price.  There are other power sources that would suit my needs better for the money right now.   I think this machine might end up in an odd place in history as a phenom in a very narrow field, with odd quirks and history but still a standout none the less. 

Again thank you all for your insight!!

Best regards
Tommy
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 02-02-2010 00:04 Edited 02-02-2010 00:07
There you go.   It will be a bit of welding trivia some day.

Miller just went the path of least resistance and put all that technology into a true inverter (Dynasty) which Aerowave is not.

Also true about the SMAW...  No dig control... Ok with Low-hy  but no adjustment for open roots.

The one thing I did like but diddn't mention was Knobs instead of touchpads!

A good power supply for Aluminum junkies.

BTW:   Had a little 1/4 inch Aluminum project today and broke out the Dynasty 700...  Diddn't want to take the time to hook up the push pull gun...  It the Hybred waveform can really do tricks on the Thick Aluminum... Putting an extra 75 amps on DCEN can really work magick.
Parent - - By MMyers (**) Date 02-02-2010 14:56
"It the Hybred waveform can really do tricks on the Thick Aluminum... Putting an extra 75 amps on DCEN can really work magick. "

Hybrid waveform, are you talking about the soft square or something different?  I've got a Dynasty 700 in the lab but haven't run it out yet.  I don't want to overlook something cool just because we don't do alot of Aluminum work.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 02-02-2010 15:22 Edited 02-02-2010 15:49
Mike,

For the purpose of my last post.. "Hybred" means independent control of amperage on both sides of the AC half cycle.

Another term is Aysemmetric

With this feature you can set amperage and dwell time for DCEN and DCEP independantly.

For example... The aluminum project I welded was 1/4 inch thick...  A 3/32" lanthanum electrode usually won't hold up for a job like this without degrading at the tip... But with the Dynasty (or Aerowave)  I could set my currents as follows.

140A  DCEP  40% Dwell time

205A  DCEN  60% Dwell time

200 Hz AC frequency  (to keep the arc more columner, with better directional control in fillets) 

This combination provided me with sufficient DCEP to etch the work and keep the puddle shiney.. The Extra DCEN provided the punch to melt that 1/4" Aluminum without ruining the end of my electrode...  The tungsten did not keep the point I started with, rather it rounded it off.. It did not expand the tip larger than the original tungsten diameter however..  Pedal to the Metal most of the time on that particular job.

With older technology a larger diameter electrode would have been required and a much fatter fillet profile would have still been the result.

Try to envision two different power supplies you can control independantly,  One DCEP the other DCEN...

While Dynasty 700 offers some advanced waveshapes (Advanced Squarewave, Soft Squarewave, Sine Wave, Triangular Squarewave)  The Advanced or "true" squarewave setting is what you would normally select for GTAW work..  The Soft Squarewave will immitate a Synchrowave 250 type output.. A Sinewave output would go further to reduce peak time at selected current levels and the Triangular squarewave is a silly option that has no practical use in fabrication or repair.. It can be employed to actually cut aluminum because the arc is so harsh.

Edit:   Here is information from Mike Sammons of Miller Electric. A series he wrote a few years ago called "Aluminations" It has 3 tig parts and two GMAW parts...
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/articles/index?page=articles42.html

This page has links to video overviews of the control pannel for Dynasty 700 and another for it's advanced functions
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/dynasty_700/
Parent - By MMyers (**) Date 02-02-2010 15:47
Excellent post!  Thank you for all of the information.  These will be good starting parameters when I ring this thing out.  I understand the theory of offset waveforms, and have a little bit of experience, but I'm really itching to dig into this stuff.  Arc physics is niche I really like.
Parent - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 02-02-2010 01:57
The Syncrowave 300 often sells pretty cheap, less than the 250. Probably due to hobby shop demand for the 250 keeping the price up.
Parent - - By TRC (***) Date 02-02-2010 02:29
Hey Tommy one final note, don't forget the input amperage on transformer machines is about twice that of an inverter.
Parent - - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 02-02-2010 16:51
Dave both are great machines, and both will smaw very well to boot.  I have sent a 300 to the shop a couple of times, never had a 250 break down.  That could just be a fluke.  If you run across any steals on either one, especially an LX, feel free to PM me if your not gonna buy it! I will do some driving for the right deal.

Ted I rekon you mean the supply amperage??  A lot more wasted energy in heat with a transformer/rectifier machine I guess.....that means it costs you more to run it.   That is a consideration for sure, if you putting in a lot of hours with the pedal down.  My shop supply will be big enough for a about a 10 horse compressor and just about any 300 amp welder.
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 02-03-2010 01:48
Tommy, I have an old 300 and a somewhat newer 351, so the next one I come upon is Yours if You want it. I watch eBay regularly and have seen some go pretty low. Of course complete packages bring more than just the power suply. There is a machinery dealer in California that seems to sell a lot of these machines, but shipping is a killer, and it is just too far away for Me to pick up.
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 02-03-2010 02:02
Cali for ni a    is a bit too much of a drive for me too Dave.   Middle America sounds better.   I am watching the Dallas area pretty hard as a lot seem to pop up down there.    I checked on shipping 500 pounds from FL and got a quote under 250 dock to dock thats cheaper then I could go get it for by quite a bit.   Funny thing is I was just checking EBAY and filtering by distance....low and behold I saw every single machine I bid on at the state auction and lost......This guy is trying to sell totally untested welders (no cords, no leads nothing) at starting prices around 900-1200 bux  LOL      I looked thru all the bid history down there and NO welder ever went for more then 250 including inverters.  

I do appreciate you keeping me in mind, four eyes see a lot more then two!!!

Thx
Tommy
Up Topic Welding Industry / General Welding Discussion / miller aerowave

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