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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Warning Sign for Plastic Hinging on Steel Moment Frame
- - By veniceiron Date 02-04-2010 18:25
I am a newly licensed approved fabricator shop in Los Angeles, CA. For my first job the moment frame needs to have a warning sticker attached to the beam at the plastic hinging zone. The engineer told me he thinks places pre-make this sticker because everybody uses them. I have not been able to locate a places that has them already made. I have found sticker manufacturers on line and will order some custom made if I have to, but if anyone knows where to buy them already made, please let me know.
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-04-2010 18:30
Interesting...I have not seen this requirement before. Is it mandated by a particular code?
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 02-04-2010 20:00 Edited 02-04-2010 20:37
veniceiron
Thanks for the question.
I too had never had to deal or heard of this but we don't have many earthquakes here in Florida.

John Wright
I found this, check the bottom left hand of the drawing at this link,
http://www.ladbs.org/FAQ/info%20bulletins/building%20code/QA%20Standard%20Plan%20Sht%203%20of%203.pdf
It is LA Department of Building and Safety
Good Luck
Marshall

JW edit: added link to General notes for the sheet linked to above-Item#6 talks about the Plastic Hinge Zone - JW
http://www.ladbs.org/faq/info%20bulletins/building%20code/QA%20Standard%20Plan%20Sht%201%20of%203.pdf
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-04-2010 20:17
Thanks Marshall. Interesting concept. I suppose they had problems with this to come up with such a requirement.
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 02-04-2010 20:29
Huh.  Maybe they want to make sure that those places definitely get inspected after a quake?

Hg
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 02-05-2010 17:18
Are these the same as the RBS=reduced beam section to allow flex of a member during a seismic event?  That's what it sounds like except your drawing does not show the reduced beam area, but it has the same limitations as it.
I have never made one but I  did attend a seminar on the Siesmic code and you ARE NOT ALLOWED TO WELD in the PROTECTED ZONE.  This is for the field and shop.
I have heard of some companys using a bright colored spray paint to paint the area and inform everone one what the flourescent paint means.  If you did that it would stand out so much everyone will ask and word will get around quick. Make it big and obvious.
Good Luck Chris
Parent - - By veniceiron Date 02-05-2010 18:09
Thanks everybody! I appreciate the help!
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 02-05-2010 22:48 Edited 02-06-2010 01:30
The simple answer is NO!!!

It is stated quite clearly in the second .pdf "QA standard plan sheet 1 of 3 (General Notes to the first .pdf)... For instance, look down within the .pdf at third column from the lower left-hand corner where it is written:

6. Plastic Hinge Protection

Now go down to "F." Where it states this:

Welded, bolted, screwed in, shot-in (Powder Driven) attachments for perimeter edge angles, Shear studs, Exterior facades, Partitions, Duct work, Piping, or other connections shall not be permitted within the plastic hinging zones.


This is just my opinion but if I were you, I WOULD LEAVE THAT ENTIRE ZONE ALONE!!! Or else risk being back-charged to death for all the procedures you will have to comply with in order to repair even a temporary condition as it is written in: the top part of the next (4th) column towards the right from the left-hand corner which states quite clearly: "G" Any penetrations or damage from temporary welded attachments within the plastic Hinging Zones shall be repaired as required by the Engineer OF Record and shall comply with Part III, item 4.

So then where does one find item 4??? Easy!!!! Look for it... This is found in column 2 from the left side of the document, where it is written as such: 4. Base Metal Repairs or Restorations

Any repair or restoration of base metal shall comply with all of the following:
A. Engineer of Record shall review and approve the WPS for repair procedure prior to welding.
B. Ensure that the repair procedures meet the requirements outlined in AWS Section 5.26 and ASTM A6/A6M-02 Section 9.2. 9.3, 9.4, and 9.5.
C. All welding shall be performed using Low-Hydrogen process or with SMAW using Low-Hydrogen electrodes.
D. Provide continuous visual inspection by the Deputy inspector.
E. Provide Non destructive testing upon the completion of the repair work.


So, what does this have to do with you??? If you do anything to damage or temporarily attach something onto any part within the Hanging plastic zones by drilling a hole, or whatever other method you prefer, whether the area is assembled or NOT, you will be in violation of the contract quality standards, and the GC can back-charge you in order to make the necessary repairs to any part of the  plastic hinge zones - PERIOD!!!

In other words, if you choose to do what you want to do, you will be back-charged for not only the necessary repairs to be performed within the plastic hinge zones, but also for having to have the deputy inspector present at the location where the repair is being performed via constant monitoring as well as the costs for performing the required NDT procedures, and any other associated costs such as the extra costs for the Engineer Of Record to review and approve the repair procedure with his/her stamp, and for the costs involved with the welder actually performing the repair(s)!!! :-( :-( :-(

Now, if this doesn't convince you that it is NOT good idea to do what you want to do, then go ahead and do what you want, or you could ask the GC, or even the EOR and see what they have to say about it. Either way, if you do this, YOU WILL LOSE YOUR SHIRT ON THIS JOB!!! It's pretty Straight Forward IMHO!!! :-) :-) ;-)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By waccobird (****) Date 02-06-2010 01:17
Henry
Thank You
I hadn't the time yet to check out Johns contribution and it was a question that had sparked my interest.
Thanks Again.
God Bless
Marshall
Parent - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 02-06-2010 01:54
Your quite 'Weldcome" Marshall!!! :) :) :) Let's just hope he heeds to the warnings. ;)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By ravi theCobra (**) Date 02-05-2010 22:37
I have seen this stenciled on to the structural steel for the MacDonalds on Manchester in L.A.

It impressed me so much that stopped the car and got out to read the cryptic message  -   Just think   -

if a ramset  gets placed there  and the building collapses  WE  HAVE  FOUND  THE  CAUSE   !   !       !
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Warning Sign for Plastic Hinging on Steel Moment Frame

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