I have a situation in the field with wide flange beams CJP welded to wide flange cols. at the col. web and flanges. The beam flanges are not beveled and the beam webs do not have weld access holes. Instead, the moments are developed by 1/2" thick plates shipped loose, with a 45 degree bevel on one side. One plate is field welded to the top of the beam flange, and one plate is field welded to the bottom flange of the beam. The joints are detailed for backgouging because the backing would have to be removed (ceramic backing is not an option).
The erector decided to weld these top and bottom flange plates to the beams on the ground, raise the beam, bolt it in place (framing angles in the beam web), and then do the CJP welds. When the beam is bolted, the beveled side of the plates overhang past the beam flanges by 3/8" or so, making it very tight to weld the opposite side of the plate where the backing would normally go.
The erector has proposed to weld the 3/32" root opening with .035 dia. mig wire and 75/25 shielding gas. He wanted to use something that would fuse the root opening without melting through it and creating a larger root opening. To finish out filling the joint, he would use 7018 SMAW.
He'll be set up with Fig. 4.10, which requires two longitudinal face bends, two longitudinal root bends, and two reduced section tensions.
The trick will be finding someone to do the testing on Friday so that the erector is able to finish welding the 34 beams over the weekend.
Yeah, testing on Friday, paperwork comes through when... So the Erector just wants to blow and go... not judging, just sayin... paperwork be damned, typical
uhhh, edit... "in the field" with gas shielding??? wtf
so, the T&B plates are fillet welded to the beam flanges and CP to the column?
i always question these "right now" fixes when the erector bid the job lo many months ago
Yes!!! About as useless as windshield wipers on a goat's ass!
Hell, if they can get the engineer to buy it, more power to them
This should be interesting to say the least.
Field welding with GMAW? 3/32 open root?
There is no way they will be able to have consistent root openings in the field if they preposition the plates and weld them to the beam before erection. The root openings will vary from one beam to the next and from one end of the groove to the opposite end because the fitter will not take the care needed to ensure proper alignment and due to column flange tilt.
It sounds like it is the contractor's intention to utilize short circuiting transfer for the root pass. ""Rots of Ruck" as Scooby would say. It will be a field day for the UT. "Good golly Ollie,” I hope the EOR was intelligent enough to call out UT!
Best regards - Al
I'm worried about the bends....I tested several fabricators that were bent on keeping the 75/25 shielding and the bends were awful, partly because the welders didn't want to listen to my advice about removing the silicon islands after each pass.
Guys, thanks for the replies. I have the same concerns. I'll have to provide some sort of root opening tolerance on the WPS.... that is; if the procedure actually qualifies.... which I have serious doubts about. I'm thinking -0 / + 3/16. I can see the coupons failing, and then I have to try something else. I don't see why the entire joint can't be made with SMAW, so that's what I'll suggest for Plan B. Stork does same day testing, so I hope to hear from them by mid-afternoon on the GMAW-S root PQR tests.
WARNING!!! WARNING!!! CLUSTERPHUCK WAITING TO HAPPEN!!! CORRECTION... GIANT CLUSTERPHUCK WAITING TO HAPPEN FOR SURE!!!Is anyone in your firm even listening to you Scott??? You need to tell these folks that not only is this is indeed going to be a mess as a result of using the methods in question, but they will definitely lose their shirts on this project because of all the re-work required to be performed afterwards!!! Tell them that they need to go right to plan "B" instead! ;)
Scott! You need to let them know in no uncertain terms that they are making a BIG MISTAKE going this route, unless they are intentionally in the business of losing money on a job... Let them know exactly how you feel about this one!!! I believe they will listen if you give a strong enough argument against going that route! ;)
Oh and btw, you might want to add in some of your excellent sense of humor in your argument to help them understand where you you are coming from - CAPECHE??? Beam me up Scotty!!! :) :) :)
Respectfully,
Henry
Henry,
I don't talk to clowns because I'm afraid of them. I think this goes back to a time when my family went to the circus and a clown killed my dad.
You are too friggin funny Scott!!! :) :) :)
Respectfully,
Henry
Are there any government bailout funds left??? After bankruptcy, figure yourself in for a handsome bonus so Obama and us taxpayers can buy you a new BMW or Escalade.
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