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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Floor decking inspection is a joke?
- - By Barry75 Date 02-08-2010 16:34
Get this I recently inspected a non composite .028" thick floor decking for a mezzanine, where the detail outlined using a 36/4 pattern attaching to joist cords using a 5/8 arc spot weld with washers. Well the welds were all underfilled, not one of them exhibited the requried reinforcement per D1.3 also several of them did not even have fusion to the joist,but there was a nice washer welded to the deck. Any way I also noticed there was only 1/2" of bearing to the perimeter angle, typically SDI requires 2" of min. bearing so I made a not of that too.
When I brought it to the attention of the engineer his words were "it doesnt matter". Puzzled I ask him why, he explained to me the decking welds were only to keep the decking in place while the concrete was being placed, and the bearing on the angle was only to keep the concrete from spilling over the side. Never hearing this before, I'm just wondering why the decking was just not attached using chewing gum or gurilla glue. And the bearing issue I can buy but still you would think safety would be a factor here. Please give me some light on this cause I havent been doing this a long time but I've been doing it long enough to think this stinks.
Parent - By waccobird (****) Date 02-08-2010 18:03
Barry75
Welcome to the Forum.
I tend to agree with you, it stinks.
You had a job to do and you, (it seems) were trying to do it to the specifications, now the EOR wants to shrug it off.
But since it is the EOR's responsibility, I would document it and continue.
Good Luck and again Welcome to the Forum.
Marshall
- - By Barry75 Date 02-08-2010 18:09
Thanks Marshall, that's about what I did, I requested the EOR send me an email with this info and attached it to my report. It wont detour me from continuing to do the inpsections the way they should be done.
Parent - - By Duke (***) Date 02-09-2010 04:54
ounds like you did the right thing.  If "it doesn't matter", why did he put it on the drawings in the first place?  Maybe to get it permitted by the AHJ?  Write an NC and let HIM buy it.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-09-2010 16:14
You did your job and then the engineer does his. He assesses the nonconformance with the knowledge of what forces have to be transmitted from on member to the next or in this case, from the metal deck to the joist.

You documented the situation and you received a written response. Should anything happen because the metal decking doesn't transmit the load of the wet concrete to the joist, i.e., the welds tear loose and the decking slides off the joist, tons of wet concrete and the workers placing it will fall into the hole. The end of the story, not by a long shot!

Now enter the fine folks from OSHA assuming they see fit to be actively involved. Next, enter the lawyers representing the folks that were injured as a result of the accident. There is no doubt your company will be a party to those being sued. You will have your reports stating that you did your job, you reported it to the proper authority, i.e., the EOR in charge. He assumed his role and accepted the noncomplying work. I would hope a copy of your report also goes to the appropriate building official. Unfortunately building officials are not usually engineers and he will rubber stamp the reports and files them away. They will be presented to the plaintiff’s lawyers when the subpoenas are issued.

The bottom line is that nothing will happen 99% of the time. The concrete will be placed. The contractors will say, “See, it doesn’t matter,” and label the inspector a “real pain in the ass”!

The EOR will go on to practice for many more years.

You will continue to inspect the work of others. You hopefully will remain diligent and report the nonconformance’s you find (which will only be a percentage of the actual nonconformances) and hope you stay out of the courtroom.

As the State Building Official once told me when I went to his office with what I thought was a serious complaint, "Al, how many building actually fall down?" And this is the state where the Hartford Coliseum collapsed a couple of years after it was built, 29 people were killed in Bridgeport when a building under construction collapsed, a bridge on I-95 collapsed killing three people, and now we have an explosion that killed 5 poor souls and put many others into the hospital.

The inspector has to remain diligent, but it can be very easy to become complacent and skip recording every nonconformance. The inspector has to resist the urge to become complacent because his work does matter and there are times when his or her diligence does save someone from serious injury.

As an inspector there is every reason to consider whom we associate with and whom we work with. I have quit jobs because there was no support from the engineer or the owner. I have refused to inspect jobs where the EOR has a reputation for shoddy work. As an employee, there is little you can do other than file your reports and make noise. The better the report, i.e., greater detail, photographs, and sketches and I like to quote the clause that is violated, the less likely the engineer is to brush the problem aside.

Good luck and stay vigilant!

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 02-09-2010 17:26
An excellent post!

I just want to reiterate the " inspector has to remain diligent, but it can be very easy to become complacent....." part. 
Too many inspectors will insert what they think is common sense into the inspection.  It is understandable - "saw that before & it didn't cause problems"; "engineer always let's it go anyway"; or even " I'm also a welder and I know that will hold". It's well intentioned but not right.

Remember that "common sense" assumes that you have "common knowledge".  But the inspector is not the engineer.  There is a lot going on that the inspector knows nothing about.  It is important not to become complacent - just as you said.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-09-2010 18:41
We find that "common sense" isn't all that common!

Best regards - Al
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Floor decking inspection is a joke?

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