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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Miller Dynasty TIG
- - By Greg Schilling Date 02-15-2010 21:52
Hello,  I have had a Miller Dynasty for several years, and have had mixed success with welding aluminum in general.  Most of the problem may be that I am a hobbyist, and am not too practiced in the art of TIG welding.  Most of the aluminum that I weld consists of small things, and nothing is over 1/8" thick.  Up until this weekend, I had been pretty sure that I had a nice machine, and that almost all of the fault fell on my lack of experience.  That all changed though, when a welder who owns a successful welding business came to my house, and said that the inverter types of machines are not very good on aluminum.  He suggested getting rid of the Dynasty, and getting a basic machine instead.  I have been using straight argon, and thoriated tungsten.  Any thoughts?  Thank you,  Greg
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 02-16-2010 00:02
Hello Greg, I wouldn't be too hasty in getting rid of this machine. By chance was this individual interested in "taking it off your hands for you"? The Dynasty line of inverter tigs is among a group of machines that will produce extremely sound welds on all different grades of aluminum. You may need a bit of help to figure out how to fully utilize all of the functions and capabilities of your machine, but I don't believe I would buy into his particular line of thinking. I believe his statements might be based more on his being used to transformer/rectifier machines and possibly not having used the inverters enough to realize their potential. Stay tuned for others comments, I believe they will likely echo what I've included here. Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By Blaster (***) Date 02-16-2010 00:23 Edited 02-16-2010 00:33
Hi Greg

The Dynasty machines do a great job on aluminum... especially on thin aluminun.

I don't know which Dynasty you have or its specific features but in general:

First I would ditch the thoriated tungsten which spikes on AC, leading to an arc that flares out and loses density.

I would go to an electrode alloyed w/ La and use a blunt end.

On thinner material I would turn the output freq up to 100 + cycles to allow a more focused stiffer arc and narrower bead to help prevent burn through.  I usually start at an output freq of 100 - 150 cycles for root or single passes.

I generally like the balance at about 70% EN.  Again to tighten up the arc, as well as to avoid excessive heating of the electrode.

On thinner material say 1/16 or so, the pulser can really help to gain a nice appearance without burn through.  As default settings on thin aluminum I like to start at about .7 or .8 PPS, about 20% peak time, and about 10% for background amperage.  A little faster on the pulse rate is better in order to increase speed along the joint and to minimize total heat input, if you can keep up.

If you have an a-symetric wave I would try setting it to an amperage ratio of about 1.25:1 to 1.5:1 EN to EP.

Your machine should be capable of excellent work on aluminum.  You just need to determine the best procedure for the material thickness, joint type and geometry, and position.
Parent - - By Greg Schilling Date 02-17-2010 17:37
Thanks for the settings advice.  Although I lack the experience to say this with any degree of confidence, it seems as though there is a problem with the arc flaring out too much as you stated.  Also, the arc seems to wander a bit during the fillet welding process.  I tried grinding different tip angles, but without any success.  The model that I have is a smaller one - the Dynasty 200 DX.  I will give your settings a try.  Greg
Parent - By rlitman (***) Date 02-17-2010 21:30
On A/C, the grind angle doesn't affect the shape of the arc too much.
Frequency on the other hand, has a HUGE effect on the arc shape.  Higher frequencies will focus the arc better than the 60hz that comes from transformer machines.  I tend to leave it around 120hz myself.
Parent - By Blaster (***) Date 02-17-2010 23:09
If you have a blunt end and keep a close arc length, the arc should come off the end of the blunt and not ride up the sides of the electrode.  If the blunt is not big enough in diameter to carry the current level, the arc will ride up the sides and then flare out.
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 02-16-2010 01:16
Gregg

Welcome to the forum!

Use the forum search function with the words Dynasty and Aluminum..

I wish I had time to say more but I'm really booked.

Your Dynasty can do anything an old transformer can.... Plus a whole lot more.  But this also makes it a bit complicated in the beginning...

Once you master the theory behind the balence control your problems will vanish...

Your friend is innacurate to suggest you get rid of your Dynasty in order to GTAW Aluminum...  Dynasty was designed just for it!

Inverters are just fine...  It's just a matter of getting your balence control in the right place for the job you are doing.

Do the search and you will be overjoyed...  You spent extra bucks for that Dynasty... It won't let you down.
Parent - - By 522029 (***) Date 02-16-2010 01:20 Edited 02-16-2010 05:04
That would be a highly biased opinion on his part.   I have a SyncroWave 350. It is a wonderful machine.  However, if I were purchasing a Tig machine today, it would be a Dynasty.

The inverters have more flexibility and use less power than the transformer machines.  You can adjust your arc for any challenge.  Aluminum is where the inverters really perform!

Griff

P.S.

There is a thread on the Miller forum dedicated to the Dynasty operations.
HTH
Griff
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 02-16-2010 05:12 Edited 02-16-2010 07:57
Hi Griff!

I seriously do not think that Larry has given a biased opinion on the characteristics of the Miller Dynasty at all!!! :) :) :)

In fact I know that it is not a biased opinion because it is the same opinion I have regarding the Dynasty and it's capabilities when welding Aluminum!!!

Why??? Because, back in the days when transformer rectifiers were still king when it came to GTAW, I had the privilege of being at the right place, and at the right time (at least in the USA) when the very first inverters were being marketed and sold here in the early Eighties... During htat time, I was working for one of the largest independent welding distributors in the greater New York Metro area ,and we were about to become the first to market the Pow Con inverter type power sources as well as the Linde Union Carbide inverters which were also just bout to enter the market as well... Of course as the Technical Sales Representative of the company, I had no idea how  these types of power sources were designed or much less, how to diagnose and troubleshoot them if a problem came up after selling one of them to our many customers...

I was eventually sent to learn how to service both brands of inverter type power sources, and after working on approximately twenty different warranty repairs on both brands, my company sent me to learn more about the Miller and Lincoln brand versions of inverter type power sources which were a heck of a lot different than the types of inverters that are sold today by a long shot!!! The differences were like comparing a pinto with a Corvette, a Fiat with a Ferrari, a - well, you get the picture I hope! ;0

The inverters of today are far more reliable than what I had to work with back in those days, and they were nowhere near as advanced, or  came with as many capabilities as the current models being offered by a variety of different manufacturers today... In fact, the inverters of back in the day could compare in performance with such power sources as the Miller Synchrowaves, or both the Lincoln and Linde/L-Tec equivalents which were pretty good in their time when welding aluminum and a P&H back in those days was a smooth as on could come besides a Synchrowave when it came to welding Aluminum... The early inverters simply couldn't sustain the same type of consistency when it came to performance compared to the transformer-rectifier power sources available in the market back then.

Actually, it was Westinghouse during that time whom was at the forefront of coming up with more efficient types of rectification designs for their transformer type power sources in the Seventies when they were coming out with SCR & some of the very first thyristor type rectifiers, and they were just about to come out with their own version of an inverter type power source also, but they instead decided to get out of their welding products business all together and scuttled that division which was a real shame because the reports on what they were just about ready to market was exciting back in those days!!! :( :( :(

Nowadays, everything has reversed completely to the point where even the mighty Synchrowaves which were the "Gold standard" so to speak when it came to the ideal type of power source design to choose if one  were to weld Aluminum... The newer, more efficient, and greater capability inverters out in the commercial market are soooo much better than the older technology transformer-rectifier power sources which can now weld both in AC as well as DC output current, leaving all of the commercially available transformer-rectifier type power sources in the dust with respect to their better features and capabilities with welding Aluminum - PERIOD!!!

Worldwide, there are to brands that exemplify the state of the art, and they are Fronius of Germany and OTC Daihen of Japan, although ESAB is no slouch either... Over here in the USA there are the Miller, Lincoln, and ESAB also which is made in Florence, SC @ the very same plant which made the very first plasma cutters & welders, and all of the former Linde Union Carbide/L-Tec welding and cutting equipment until ESAB took over and we cannot exclude the Thermal Arc inverters which do produce excellent arc welding capabilities, yet are not as relaible in design ruggedness IMHO when compared to the Blue, Red and Yellow brands... There are also a few other smaller companies which produce specialty type inverter power sources designed fro welding also, and Pow Con/Cyclomatics no longer produces the inverter that broke hte market wide open back in the day! :(

Now I have not had the opportunity to diagnose or troubleshoot the Fronius or OTC Daihen power sources, but I've worked on all of the other power sources as well as welded with them to find out just what sort of features and capabilities were being offered by these newer technology inverter type welding power sources... IMHO, the best power sources for Aluminum are being offered by Miller with Thermal Arc and ESAB running neck and neck and unfortunately Lincoln falling back to the end of the line. This is based on capabilities and features...

However when it comes to reliability and consistency is concerned, the Miller surprisingly took first place followed by the Lincoln, then almost tied for secon place was ESAB, and finally Thermal Arc last in line with respect to reliability... I still think that the Thermal Arc machine is an excellent inverter power source, yet it is obviously not as rugged as the other brands and for use out in the field, it weighs heavily in the reliability factor... This is not just based on my opinion either!!! This is based on the opinions of many different service personnel who regularly work on these types of inverter type power sources and currently have performed more work on these brands than I have recently.

Being able to both customize the balance control far beyond the capability of the older synchrowaves as well as being able to customize the wave form way beyond the capability of what is described by some as squarewave output, yet really obsolete when compared to the true squarewave output capabilities of the dynasty inverters... Then there is the capability to change the frequency output and increasing it way beyond what high frequency could offer in conventional transformer-rectifiers without having to use an overlapping superimposed and separate high frequency current in order to stabilize the arc as it transitions between half cycles along with total control of a separate pulsing feature also is brilliant!!! One cannot do this with a transformer rectifier like the synchrowave, and don't even get me started on asymmetrical capabilities of the Dynasty 700 amp power source!!!

The asymmetrical type inverter power sources are sort of an equivalent to the older variable polarity customizable waveform pulse power sources which were developed by NASA to weld a bunch of critical Aluminum structures found in the Space Shuttle program, and we are now experiencing the results of their advanced technology research in the newer Miller power sources. Now there are some even more exotic power sources out there which are even more capable than what is commercially available at comparable prices, and their capabilities are truly awesome, yet they are indeed cost prohibitive in many applications and are primarily used in very intricate and sophisticated applications that cannot be achieved with lesser capable equipment.

So I can definitely say with some sort of confidence that the current inverter type power sources do offer capabilities that were only available in some of our imaginations back in the heady days of when Synchrowave 350's & 500's, Squarewave 355's?, the old P&H's, the 330 ABP's, the Heliarc 350's, the older Hobart models and some of the other transformer rectifier AC/DC Hi Frequency power sources I forgot to mention were still King!!! :) :) :) There's just no comparison when it comes to what one can do with these newer inverters when it comes to welding Aluminum as well as other metals also!!! :) :) :) They are better made these days, and their pricing has come down substantially also which is refreshing as well!!! :)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - - By aevald (*****) Date 02-16-2010 06:48
Hello Henry, not that I need to speak for Griff, but I believe he was referring to the OP's receipt of advice by the gentleman who owned a shop and told him of the inverter's lack of performance.
     Thanks for including the behind-the-scenes information on those powersources and their development. I have only gotten to "play" with the Millers at some of the local shops in our area on occassion and at the Miller R&D department in Appleton and the Miller district training facility in Portland, Ore. Besides a gaggle of Syncrowave 250's we have a Thermal Arc GTSW 300(analog) in our school shop(I love that machine!) and I have briefly run some of the Lincolns at local shops. I do believe that the OP will come to really appreciate his machine if he is able to get some assistance in figuring out it's capabilities. Have a great evening, Henry! Best regards, Allan
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 02-16-2010 08:11
You're right Allan, as I now notice that Griff edited his post to correct what he originally meant to say, and to avoid confusion as to what he meant specifically, yet I was too busy writing my post to notice the change until after I had already decided to click the "post" button. :) :) :) Since you probably didn't notice how it was phrased originally, you would also not understand why my post was addressed towards Griff originally... No foul, No harm. ;)

Now I know I type faster than most folks in here, but I know that I couldn't have typed the size of my post in eight minutes!!! :) :) :)

I've been to Appleton a few times myself as well as Florence,SC, New Hampshire, and don't even get me started with all the times I was in Cleveland, OH!!! :) :) :)
Out of all of those places, I liked Appleton the best by far!!! ;) Their hospitality was always second to none IMHO!!! :) Fun times for sure!!! :) :) :)
Best Regards to you Allan & Griff!!! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 02-16-2010 08:36
Hello Henry, I see the "edit" now. I probably missed it as well. Yes, Appleton was first rate when I was there. I hope to make it to Lincoln sometime in the future........... gotta do a side by side comparison you know! Have a good evening, regards, Allan
Parent - By 522029 (***) Date 02-17-2010 12:22
Allan,

You are correct. Thank you.

I could avoid such confusion if I would just remember to address by name the person to whom I was replying.

Thanks
Griff
Parent - - By 522029 (***) Date 02-16-2010 12:14 Edited 02-16-2010 12:16
Henry,

An interesting post, but, I missed something here.

Griff

I think I just found what I missed.  My reply was to Gregg, not Lawrence.

I agree that the Dynasty is a great machine, especially for aluminum.

Griff
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 02-16-2010 17:42
Hi Griff!

Indeed! I must have misinterpreted your original response, but it was pointed out to me by both Allan and yourself after I had already posted...
So it's ALL GOOD!!! :) :) :)

Respectfully,
Henry
Parent - By supermoto (***) Date 02-16-2010 19:41
Dynastys are awesome!  I used one for 3 years and they are great for welding thinner materials and making smaller welds because you can adjust your frequency.  We did have a problem that they seemed to be flawed when we were welding some 1.5 inch thick RT quality welds, they were failing due to tungsten inclusions.  We tried everything from changing tungsten and gas, and even having Miller come in and figure it out and nothing.  We ended up using the Sincrowave 350s.  We had the older Dynasty 250s.
Parent - By 522029 (***) Date 02-17-2010 01:00 Edited 02-17-2010 01:09
HENRY,

Not a problem! 

Griff
Parent - By Greg Schilling Date 02-17-2010 21:54
Thanks.  I wasn't aware of the Miller forum.......
- - By Greg Schilling Date 02-17-2010 17:30
Thanks for all the responses.  Yes, the person was willing to take the Dynasty 200 DX off my hands for about the amount that a base non-inverter unit would cost.   I will try some of the suggested settings, and try to simply get more experience with it overall.   There have been some decent videos on how to fillet weld aluminum using TIG on Youtube.  Is anybody aware of any videos that they consider to be excellent? 

Sorry about my taking an extra day to respond - my car lost a timing belt in the middle of nowhere yesterday, and I never made it to the computer to see what people had said.

Greg
Parent - - By supermoto (***) Date 02-17-2010 18:37
Have you tried millerwelds.com, they have some GTAW videos last I looked.
Parent - By Greg Schilling Date 02-17-2010 21:51
Only tried Youtube.  Will take a look.  Thanks!
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 02-17-2010 21:33
Here are a couple of quick things to keep in mind.

The balence control on your inverter is *NOT*  like the balence control on your old synchrowave.... This is how they differ.

Traditional Square Wave (synchrowave)  vs  True Square wave (Dynasty )

Balence control on Traditional Squaare wave can provide a Max 68% EN  (balence setting at 10 of 10)

VS

Balence control on a True Square wave  Up to 99% EN

This means when you set your balence at 7 of 10 on a traditional square wave you will be getting about 55ish% dwell time on EN  as compared to a True Square wave set to 7 out of 10 that will produce 70% EN  This is a *BIG* difference.

Anything over 70% EN is going to require special surface oxide removal preparation or simply may not work when high quality is required.

The special effects produced by True Squarewave are nice to make small profile fillets and grooves... But if that is not a requirement I think you should stay under that 68% EN balence..

Frequency adjustment up to 200 Hz will help keep the arc at the tip of your electrode as you tail off and decrease the current at weld termiations and on thinner aluminum.  Any frequency above 200 hz on aluminum GTAW is just annoyance unless there is a special application.

Thorium tungsten is ok for general aluminum GTAW as long as you don't overheat it... If you see any "thorium spikes" (little nodules growing on the tip of your tungsten... This is a sign your tungsten electrode is overheated.  Lanthanum, Cerium and Zirconium all have a tendency to round off at the tip when they overheat rather than growing spikes...  The spikes are also a sure indicator that you are transferring tungsten across the arc into the weld pool, which is a bad thing.  Water cooled torches are a huge advantage when doing aluminum GTAW.

Last of all....  All of the quality one might expect from a Dynasty will be rendered completely useless if there is even the smallest bit of aluminum contamination on your tungsten.  If it has anything on it at all.. STOP and clean it up, or your just wasting your time.
Parent - By Greg Schilling Date 02-17-2010 21:53
I will try those things.  Not being too familiar with the Dynasty, I have not veered far from the generic settings that were listed in the operator's manual.  Thank you!
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Miller Dynasty TIG

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