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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Is just having a CWI not good enough anymore?
- - By Brennan Date 02-16-2010 16:38
This is just bull s#%t! Is having just a CWI not good enough anymore? Now you need to be a CWI with MT, PT, UT, and RT certs. So how are CWIs that don't have these supposed to get any work? What's next? Are you going to have to have an Engineering degree along with those certs to obtain a job.  What the hell is going on? I've been welding and fitting for the past 16 years and got my CWI a little over 2 and half years ago. And since I don't have those certs or 500 years of experience, I cant find a good inspecting job. I had a good qc job and gave it 110% because I wanted to learn as much as I could and really excel at my new career. I was doing well, making relationships with the customer and gaining respect from them and my coworkers. The next thing I know I'm pulling a knife out of my back from being double crossed. Now, I'm back on my tools because I can't find a good inspection job.
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 02-16-2010 17:00
Thats really pretty much how it's always been.. (not the knife part)

The best compensation is going to go to inspectors with a broad range of skills...  Not that different from welders..  The more varied process/fitting skills you have the more your worth.

I don't think top pay has ever gone to inspectors with just visual inspection experience.

It doesn't help much today... But next time you get that QC position it would be worth your while to expand your education on the job...  Take a class or seminar in MT, PT, UT or RT...  Your local AWS section will point you to where the training is going on...  In the two and a half years since you earned that CWI there was ample time for you to continue learning so you could land on your feet when that knife appears.

I'm not hating on the CWI... But it is only the beginning for somebody intent on an inspection career.
Parent - - By Brennan Date 02-16-2010 17:14 Edited 04-18-2011 13:18
delete
Parent - By Lawrence (*****) Date 02-16-2010 17:39
Go to your next AWS section meeting...

Especially in hard times the section meetings are a great place to network... Both for training and work...

The folks that are doing well are always more likely to show up at the section meetings..  Plenty of players out there are willing to make room for a quality guy..  They just have to find you.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 02-16-2010 17:40
I might suggest, if you're in the mood to expand your resume' that you consider NACE coating certs.
I would be shocked to hear this did not increase the demand for your services.
Virtually every CWI that I know of that went this route saw his income and demand increase.
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-16-2010 17:57
I agree with Jeff, I attended a NACE seminar and took the exam for the CIP Level I. Well, while I was there, I rubbed elbows with the other paint inspectors in the class and heard them talking about the salaries that they make; and this was BEFORE they became certified and they expected their salary to really jump afterwards. I never dreamed that a NACE certified paint inspector could make double or triple what a CWI makes.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-16-2010 19:39 Edited 02-17-2010 12:43
The market continually evolves. As the customers become more demanding, we as inspectors have to be ready to fill the positions that are available. The only way to ensure you have the skill sets required is through continuing education.

I have always said that the CWI was a new beginning for many people. It is not the end of the learning experience; it is the beginning. Do not expect your employer to send you to the seminars and training courses. You have to want them bad enough to pursue them on your own. Your employer owes you a paycheck at the end of the week for the services you performed, nothing more. What you do with the paycheck is up to you. Spend it on the new flat screen TV or a class on PT. Spend your money on the new Blue-ray or take a class in English composition. Skip a couple of evenings at the bar tossing darts or take a class on auditing. Throw a big birthday party for the wife or pay for that course on UT. Wait a minute, you skip that birthday party for the wife, you will not get any for at least a month. You better think about that one carefully before acting on it.

You get the idea. The better prepared you are to answer the needs of potential employers, the better your opportunities to continue with a good career as an inspector or quality assurance.

AWS is trying to answer some of the demands placed upon us (practicing inspectors) by expanding the endorsements available. Endorsements are available for open book examinations (D1.1, D1.5, ASME Section IX and the Piping Codes, etc.), high strength bolting, Blueprint reading, and very soon, PT and later MT.  There was a considerable amount of controversy when the concept of endorsements was first laid on the table, but I think it is one means of the CWI expanding his skill sets. 

Best regards - Al
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 02-16-2010 21:54
Miss the wifes birthday and you might need MT level III and wet flourescent to find the crack of your ass behind that boot she'll have inserted in it.
Parent - - By fitter (**) Date 02-21-2010 16:45
Hi Al, Fitter here. I had e-mailed ross with this question but did not get a answer, maybe you can answer. I have been a pipefitter/welder for 30 years with much time spent welding in nuclear plants. One year ago I took and passed the AWS/CWI course.I have sent out many resumes all over the place, but everyone wants PT,UT, MT certs or experience. My question is will the AWS offer certification courses in these ndt  techniques any time soon? It really is a catch 22 trying to get an inspection job. I have 30 years experiience in welding, but that apparently does no good. Any help with this question would be appreciated Thank You
Parent - - By CWI555 (*****) Date 02-21-2010 19:55
If you have time in with nuclear, then you should focus on converting that cwi to QC mechanical and welding examination. I believe you would have more luck in the current economy.
Parent - - By fitter (**) Date 02-21-2010 20:59
hELLO cwi555, Fitter here. How do I go about becoming a welding and or mechanical qc? I thought the AWS/CWI test covered this but I guess I'm wrong. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Parent - By CWI555 (*****) Date 02-21-2010 21:06
If you've been welding in the nuclear world for some time, and have a CWI, it will be all in how you write your resume. Go to nukeworkers.com and peruse their help wanted ads. Find someone to write the resume for you, and submit it for QC.
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 02-22-2010 16:31
I don't speak for AWS, but what would be the sense in AWS trying to take over ASNT's turf?

Hg
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 02-23-2010 15:35
Hg, 

I presume you asked this question based upon Al's comments about future endorsements by AWS for PT & MT.

I have seen and heard this from several sources and believe it is also viewable on the website in the certifications section.

They are currently offering 'Bolting' and 'Print Reading' which used to be available only through ICC testing thus moving into their "turf". 

If handled with the same respect that other testing is handled by AWS the reputation for quality will be there and those endorsements will be as good as if they were through ASNT.  I would wonder as well if it were possible to work in co-operation with ASNT and that it would actually be an ASNT certification.  Just my own thoughts.  But to back it up, if you get certified by a level III in any of the NDT processes are you not ASNT certified?  So, if AWS teaches classes using ASNT Level III techs the graduates should be ASNT certified? Right?  I don't know.  I'm not at this point.  Hopefully soon.  Just my understanding.  Maybe I should do some more checking (I'm sure someone here will correct me if I misunderstood before I can get back and correct myself, and please do,  just be patient with my lack of knowledge).

Bottom line would be that AWS in trying to give their people one place to go to get what they need to do their jobs. 

Hadn't noticed anyone else say anything to your question.  Not that I am qualified to, Just My Two Tin Pennies Worth.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By kipman (***) Date 02-24-2010 13:29
Brent,
There is a lot of confusion around this point.  If someone receives training (no matter how much it is) and receives a certificate of successful completion of that training, he/she is not certified to do anything.  Sufficient formal organized training is only one of the necessary components to prove that one is qualified to do the job (i.e. capable), and that training certificate is simply proof that one has had that particular training.  To be certified to perform a certain task, you need a piece of paper on which someone else (not you) attests that you are indeed qualified to perform that certain task.  Just like driving - a license to drive is your certification that you are capable (how somebody proves to the state that they are qualified to drive is another matter, and I won't go into that!).
NDT qualification also requires experience, education (this is not the same thing as training), testing to prove knowledge and skill, and physical testing (most commonly an eye exam of some sort). 

My opinion on AWS "certification" (and you know what they say about opinions) is this: I am an employer of CWI's.  Per QC1 it is my responsibility to ensure that any CWI who works for me is capable of performing the specific tasks I need him/her to do.  So for my purposes the CWI certification document is simply one of the qualification documents I need.  I also do specific testing and training of CWI's to ensure they can indeed perform the specific tasks I need them to perform - then I certify them.  I would view any AWS NDT "endorsement" they same way - i.e. caveat emptor (buyer beware).
Mankenberg
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 02-26-2010 21:45 Edited 02-26-2010 21:47
Kip, hope you keep up with this,

Thank you, Misuse of terms and not worded as clearly as it could have been.  Basically your explanation comes back to the well gone over 'Qualified vs Certified' as far as Welders go.

And from an employer/client position, whether gov't entity, private investor protecting his investment, GC, etc, no matter 'Who' has qualified the inspector, 'How many' qualifications he has, 'What' (UT, PT, MT, etc) qualifications he has they need to verify his ability to competently perform the work they have need of testing.  Experience and education are definitely important to prove and hone knowledge and skill and to prove the inspectors ability to competently complete/perform his assigned task.  Obviously adding to the ability of a customer to chose a competent individual without having to be in doubt as to HOW competent he is and whether or not they made the right choice.

My post in response to Hg was mainly pointing out that AWS had indeed already encroached upon the "turf" of others by adding the Bolting Endorsement and then wondering if they were indeed doing it again with the NDT modes or whether they were going to work 'WITH' ASNT.  Between yourself and Joe Kane I think my questions about the AWS reasons and chosen path are clearer now.  And I, for one, do not have a problem with that course.  In my little sphere of a community if it is done by AWS then it is expected to be of exceptional quality producing quality personnel that can handle the job needing to be done.  They are allowing AWS/CWI with Bolting Endorsement for Structural Steel Special Inspectors because the belief is that those people will be as qualified to do the job as people with ICC/ICBO SSW qualifications.

Bottom line to me: Do as much as possible through AWS and support them.  Then, if someone has stated in the Job Specs, General Notes in the Structural Prints, Contract Docs, etc that they want ASNT or ICC- CHALLENGE IT!!  Man I do a lot of work with on TPI's used to only have ICC SSW and his ASNT Level III UT, MT & Level II PT (by 'only', no AWS/CWI).  He used to go to the engineer or who ever was main decision maker if the job called for AWS/CWI and get an allowance made because of his qualifications and experience.  At other times, if the job was large enough, he did all the NDT work and I did all the VT.  MOST always it was not a problem.  He has since added the AWS/CWI to his qualifications as well.  POINT- it can be done either way.  We just need to operate within the acceptable practices for qualifying for the work at hand and pressure engineers, Building Authorities, General Contractors to accept the AWS Quilifications until it is known, understood, and proven to be as available and trustworthy as any other in current use.  And YES, for a time, there may be some who will NEED more than one.  Don't try to get them to accept just one as they change the system.  They need to recognize that qualified inspectors should be accepted regardless of which agency qualifies them. 

It would soon boil down to which organization had the best educational opportunities, best pricing, best support services, best reputation for producing quality people who complete quality jobs consistantly.  That is part of our great free enterprise system, competition.  These things will be determining factors by those wanting to get qualified as well as those seeking inspectors. 

I felt the same reservations, as others here have expressed about NDT,  about who I should get qualified to do Bolting Inspections through.  After talking with those we do our TPI work for, the City authorities around here listing Special Inspectors, engineers seeking our services, etc I saw only positive responses toward the AWS program.  I see no reason for thinking any NDT Program that AWS comes up with would be any different. 

And, as I pointed out in another thread, several areas of inspections listed in the IBC do not specify to what standard, organization, or school an inspector should be qualified to or from.  They only state the the inspection will be done to such and such a standard.  Welding is an exception, "Welding inspection shall be in compliance with AWS D1.1.  The basis for welding inspector qualification shall be AWS D1.1." (IBC, Section 1704.3.1)  Not ICC, AISC, or whoever, BUT, AWS D1.1.  And all their manuals on various building quality always devault to AWS for almost ALL things welding.  That says something about AWS's reputation.

Just my two tin pennies worth and thank you Kip and Joe for your responses and helping me to understand the direction and reason for it that AWS is taking in the NDT area.

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 02-24-2010 16:10
I'm with Hg on this MT/PT thing. Unless somebody explains it better it sounds like a bunch of crap based upon greed.
You get into turf wars and the inspector/examiner is caught in the middle and undoubtedly will be faced with forking over more money.
If AWS does 'cooperate' ASNT then what would be the point other than more money?
Will it somehow make inspection any better?
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 02-24-2010 16:22
That's my concern.  Anyone can do in-house ASNT-based qualification.  ASNT also offers their own testing & certification, and some specifiers might require this.  AWS could offer ASNT-compatible qualification as well, I suppose, and that would be okay for someone who requires "qualification in compliance with ASNT", but if we wind up with two separate certification programs, what's going to happen is some people will require the one and some people will require the other, and the result is the inspector has to get both.

Sometimes a monopoly serves a purpose.

Hg
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 02-24-2010 16:36
"what's going to happen is some people will require the one and some people will require the other, and the result is the inspector has to get both."

EXACTLY
Parent - - By Joseph P. Kane (****) Date 02-24-2010 23:36
The whole purpose of AWS's venture into yoke MT, Aerosol Can Visible Dye PT, RI and UT, is because we want to get away from the discredited SNT-TC-1A fraud system.

The ASNT and ASME have conspired against the CWI program for decades.  We have the means to provide a valid central Certification program that gets rid of the bureaucracy of TC-1A, and gets the CWI accepted into the pipe and tank trades.

The UT program will make the training and testing more attuned to the D1.1 / D1.5 / D1.8 requirements.

We tried to do a joint limited Central Certification program with ASNT.   We were dealing with an ASNT President who was an outright liar. We wasted three years diddling with that organization!  We tried to get them to create a certification program for CWIs to use without having to have the ASNT-SNT-TC-1A bureaucracy, and five ASNT presidents couldn't see any way to accommodate us.  Then we wasted another two years trying to get a viable program to comply with ISO and the European programs.

I say F them all!!!! (By the way, I am an ASNT Life Member!

I make the following boast.  The ASNT ACCP program for Level IIs would still be in committee, if it wasn't for our threat to create our own program.

The AWS program efforts are not based on greed.  (F you if you chose to believe it.  May you catch bone cancer!!!)  .  We worked on these programs to SAVE the CWIs money and involvement in the ASNT bureaucracy.

Joe Kane
Parent - - By HgTX (***) Date 02-25-2010 15:34
You can only save them money with an alternate program if you can convince the rest of the world to give up on the first program (or at least accept yours as equivalent).  Otherwise they end up having to pay for both.

Hg
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 02-25-2010 17:02
Hg is right. If we're going to claim the ASNT system is discredited then someone needs to tell ASME because it is smack dab all over the ASME codes including Section III which changes about as quickly as the procession of the equinox's.
So, even if a customer wishes to allow an equivelent, it makes no difference to me on the ASME side, I'm complying with the code.
So if this does start to be imposed by end users, customer specs etc., you will have to have both.
Parent - By AceMet (*) Date 03-03-2010 17:07
Hey Joe.  Good to see you on this post.  While reading it I was thinking "Joe Kane needs to comment on this."  Well you have in your signature manner.  I hope to see you in Atlanta, dinner is on me.  Mark Bell
Parent - - By supermoto (***) Date 02-16-2010 19:27
I have been a Level II in UT/MT for about a year with a CWI for the past 4 years and I can't get a job.  Don't get me wrong I have a pretty good QC job at a structural steel fabricator but there is nowhere for me to go and haven't had a raise in two years.  I am always looking for new postions and always applying but most people want more than what I have, like experience in API or ASME. 

Check out ASNT.org for their local section meetings. I have been going to the Charlotte area for the past two years and have made some great contacts and networked pretty well but that still hasn't landed me a job.  Just another way to get your name out there.  I am willing to travel but not willing to relocate, I just relocated to Charlotte, 5 years ago and not ready to do it again.  I could have a job tomorrow probably if I would relocate.  I am sure that most of it is the economy.   

What is your location?  Have you tried any of the structural steel inspection companies?  I do know of someone who could get you some work as a CWI and maybe some training in ET.  Send me a message if you want.

Good luck.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-16-2010 19:50 Edited 02-16-2010 19:57
Do not limit yourself to the structural steel industry. A small percentage of my work involves structural steel. My work includes many different industrial sectors. Dependence on one industrial sector means you are out of work when the business cycle for that one industry crashes.

The problem with this recession is that many industrial sectors have crashed and burned. That makes getting a job that much more difficult.

I worked construction for many years and I know how hard it can be when the employment opportunities are slim. That is why I diversified many years ago so that I would not get locked into one company or one industrial sector.

Your suggestions on attending section meetings of AWS, ASNT, AMS, ASME, etc. are good ideas. Networking is what it is all about. Being at the right place at the right time has a lot to do with success, but you have to be prepared for the opportunity as they present themselves. Another good place to start building a network of associates is your local college. There must be at least one course you can find that will help you in your career. A class in math, writing, chemistry, physics, metallurgy, manufacturing processes, strength of materials, statics, electrical theory (AC and DC), computer literacy, etc. can be very helpful in your career and you will meet people that work in different industries than you. You never know what their employer may be looking for and you may fit the bill.

I have to run. I have an AWS Section meeting to attend this evening. We're having a joint meeting with AMS and we are touring a company that builds laser and electron beam welding machines. NETWORKING!

Best regards - Al
Parent - By supermoto (***) Date 02-16-2010 20:08
I would live to get out if structural steel work, but nobody seems give me the opportunity. At least their requirements ask for API or ASME experience. I have an AAS in welding tech and 1 year certificate in UT. But I guess I'm just not applying for the right job or I don't have enough experience.
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 02-16-2010 22:57
CWI is the start of a career not the end, so id say no, you need to become as well rounded as possible.
In most DOT inspections you would need a CWI, MT, and NACE certs to follow a job from welding to painting.
The need for So many certs may be 2 things one is necessity, and the other is a way to see if a person is ambitious.
I would suggest that you focus on getting a shop job.
Another thing you could do is troll the 3 party agencies Every1 ive worked with love to have more CWIs on the books, its feast or famine work but it never never hurts to hook up with some of them.
Parent - By dbigkahunna (****) Date 02-23-2010 13:09
I know pipeline inspectors that only have a CWI. All they do is pipeline inspection. It pays pretty good but you have to travel. However when it comes to structural where the inspector may be required to do MT, PT and UT additional certs are going to be required. And the competition you face will have these certs so to compete in the job market against others who have additional certifications require you to have these as well.
My philosophy is to go where the others aint. With 16 years experience instead of competing against the 25 year old techs, get a NACE coating inspector cert and if you have a structural background get the bridge painting cert to go with it. If you have a petroleum background and have the experience qualifications the NACE with any of the API inspector certifications will gain you opportunities.
Keep in mind, additional certs mean more money. And more chances to land a job. All things considered, a company needing a inspector who is looking at someone with 16 years experience welding experience but 2 years inspection experience and only a CWI against someone who has 5 years practical experience but 5 years inspection experience and CWI, MT, PT, and UT certs would probably choose the latter over the former.
- By dmilesdot (**) Date 02-25-2010 18:10
In a lot of cases its a matter of the bottom line.  Can an employer get one person who can do a visual inspection and the required NDE?  If an employer can get the job done with one person, why hire two to get the same job done?  The wages involved are always going to be higher for the multi certifed person.  There are jobs around in different industries for someone with just a CWI, but there are many more for a CWI with NDE certs.  The job market is ever changing, the top paying jobs now day involve travel, sometimes it requires an overseas stint.  The the economy in the US being what it is, staying at home may not be in your best interest.  To travel it takes an understanding family.  Almost all of the overseas jobs require CWI's with NDE certs.  There are many foreign companys bidding on US work and if the project involves code work, a CWI is required and Europe has few CWI's and fewer still with ASNT NDE certs.  There comes a time when you have to ask yourself, do I stay at home doing inspection work and make a limited salary, or do I travel and make an unlimited salary.  Like someone said in an earlier post getting your CWI is just the beginning.
JMHO
Dave
- - By walkthecup Date 02-25-2010 22:30
This is something of a sore subject to me also.  I attended the seminar and passed the D1.1 CWI test this past July, then after 6.5 years of taking 10 - 11 credit hours per semester, I finished a BSET in Engineering Technology in December, this on top of having ASME certs in FCAW, TIG, MIG and SMA in plate and pipe. Yet I can't get an interview because I lack actual working experience as an Engineer.  I've only been on the hunt for 2 months and hopefully something will come through but it has not been what I had expected.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-27-2010 18:10 Edited 02-28-2010 17:11
Any one of us that is "selling" our services to a customer or employer has to meet their needs and any certification requirements imposed by the applicable code or standards. The applicable code or standard will stipulate what requirements must be met with regard to welder qualification and the qualifications of the inspector. In some cases those requirements are a legal requirement once the code or standard is adopted in statues such as a building code.

ASNT has three certification schemas. One best known is the employer based SNT-TC-1A. It is the granddaddy of qualification and certification programs for those involved in nondestructive testing. It allows the employer to modify the recommendations of the "recommended practice" SNT-TC-1A. Some employers take full advantage, no, make that abuse the latitude of the recommended practices of SNT-TC-1A. Customers that do not take the time to read and understand the flexibility offered by SNT-TC-1A and do not read the "Written Practice" required for any company offering NDT services may get less than they expected. Individuals qualified and certified in accordance with SNT-TC-1A are in fact qualified and certified to their employer's written practice, not SNT-TC-1A. The requirements of the written practice may be very different from SNT-TC-1A with regards to the training, experience, and examinations recommended for certification. Remember, SNT-TC-1A is a recommended practice! The employer certifies the individual. The certification may be limited in scope and it is not transferable to a new employer.

ASNT also has a standard that specifies the minimum requirements for qualification and certification of NDT personnel in CP-189. This standard is similar to SNT-TC-1A, but there is a major difference. That difference is that the employer cannot water down the qualification requirements. The level of education, hours of training, hours (months) of job experience, and the examinations are minimum requirements that have to be met. The employer still has to have a written practice, but it has to meet the minimum requirements of CP-189. There has to be a Level III involve that has been tested and certified by ASNT. That Level III is certified by ASNT and has to subscribe to a code of ethics similar to the code of ethics that a CWI or SCWI has to agree to. The Level I and Level II, as well as the Level III have to be certified by the employer. Only the Level III is certified through a central agency, the ASNT, and that certification is transferable from one employer to another (if permitted by the written practice).

ASNT also offers central certification by examination. The Level II and Level III examinations and the certification are issued by ASNT in a manner similar to AWS's QC1 program. The certification is transferable from one employer to another if permitted by the employer's written practice.

The ASNT ACCP program also offers an examination that involves writing a NDT procedure based on a "standard.” This examination is administered as part of the ACCP Level III examinations to become an ACCP Professional NDT Level III. The certification is transferable from one employer to another if it is permitted by the employer's written practice.

Some employers have an additional examination that is administered in addition to the ASNT examinations to ensure the Level II and Level III is familiar with the employer's written practice and any in-house procedures. However, for most companies, it is the ACCP Level III that develops the company's written practice and in-house NDT procedures.

It is unfortunate that some people fail to take the time or the energy to understand the differences between the different programs offered by ASNT for the qualification and certification of people performing NDT. It is easier to rant and rave and denounce the weaknesses of the offerings rather than seeing or recognizing the flexibility they offer.

I just hope that the motto of AWS' offerings for NDT do not become, "Certify with AWS. We are second best and proud of it!"

I do not believe a program that fails to meet the recommendations of SNT-TC-1A is one worth pursuing. Let us hope that AWS takes the "high road,” exceeds the requirements of competing organizations, and offers a certification that is worth carrying and will be respected by those industries we work with. Being second best is not going to do any of us any good. 

Certifications, whether it is for welding inspection, other NDT methods, forklift drivers, etc. is big business. There is no doubt about that. An organization offering certification for any purpose has to meet their customer's expectations. A certification that is not recognized is worthless. AWS, ANT, API, and others offer certifications of many types for different applications, but each has be accepted by their customers, not the individual being certified, but the company that hires the individuals holding the certification. The certification process evolves over time in response to customer demands. Those programs that fail to respond to the customer's needs will ultimately flounder.

When making recommendations to my clients, I do not recommend hiring those NDT companies that certify their personnel to SNT-TC-1A. Instead, I recommend hiring those firms that qualify and certify their people to CP-189. SNT-TC-1A was the only schema available for many years, but the expectations of the customers have changed. In response ASNT and AWS have expanded their offerings. They will continue to do so or they will become irrelevant and flounder.

The customer has to be cognizant of the programs available and the limitations of each of the programs. Anyone seeking certification is wise to explore the different certifications offered by different companies or organizations. Not all certifications are created equal and they are not universally recognized. The individual seeking training and certification has to be selective and choose the certification schema that will best suit the needs of the industrial sector they wish to work with.

If you are seeking employment in the oil patch, AWS may not be the best certification to obtain. API has their own certification programs geared to the needs of the oil patch. If you are working in the structural steel industry, certification to AWS' QC1 program is recognized and required by most engineers, municipalities, and state DOTs. API certification holds little sway in the structural steel industry and would not be highly prized. If you expect to work for a NDT house that does penetrant testing or magnetic particle testing for aerospace applications, you need to verify the certification you hold is applicable. In the later case AWS certification for solvent removable penetrant dye testing or continuous current dry magnetic particle testing with a yoke is not going to hold sway with a prospective employer. 

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By welderbrent (*****) Date 02-28-2010 04:09
Al, 

Thank you very much for all of the info.  None of the people, companies, organizations that I have asked questions of for NDT classes has even begun to expound on the available differences as you just did.

While I would like to be able to get all my qualifications documented by one organization I do pray they will be to the highest standards.  I hope that will be the goal of any program AWS establishes.

Have a Great Day,   Brent
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-03-2010 21:13
Glad to be able to help.

Al
Parent - - By Jim Hughes (***) Date 03-11-2010 03:08 Edited 03-11-2010 13:00
Al,
I totally agree. I don't understand the rocks being thrown at ASNT. The last two companies I worked for had a very strong SNT-TC-1A program. I witnessed many a CWI go down in flames against the testing requirements. And then to be fair I reviewed a number of SNT-TC-1A programs that were weak and the employers had abused the latitude of the program. I just left a nuclear job that it did not matter how many CWI's you had you were going to qualify under their written practice. ASME conciders AWS QC-1 and SNT-TC-1A as equals. The company I work for now took two years to implement their SNT-TC-1A program and have saved a ton of money qualifying and certiyng their own people. The latitude it gives you to customize the training around the industry your working in is very helpful. It's not cookie cutter. I am very much appreciative of both AWS and ASNT.  Both have there place.
Jim
P.S Speaking of training I am taking my Basic and VT Level III at the end of March so wish me luck.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-11-2010 14:03
Good luck on your Level III examinations.

Many people are not aware of AWS' specification for qualifying in-house welding inspectors. It is very much like SNT-TC-1A in the organization, training, experienence, and examination requirements. Inspectors qualified/certified in accordance with AWS B5.2 are certified by their employer just like other NDT personnel qualified and certified by their employers per SNT-TC-1A.

AWS welding standards do not require the fabricator's inspectors be qualified in accordance with QC1, i.e., they do not have to be qualified and certified as CWIs. It is perfectly acceptable to the welding codes to utilize inspectors that are qualified and certified to AWS B5.2 by the employer. As a matter of fact, the codes do not even go as far as to require the in-house qualification/certification program be per B5.2.

Throwing stones can be dangerous to the person throwing the stones, especially if the glass is bullet resistant.

"Hey, kid, be careful with that B-B gun, you'll shoot your eye out!"

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Ringo (***) Date 03-11-2010 14:55
We certify our inspectors here like you said,under AWS D17.1.We have alot of NDT guys,but none had ever been certified as a visual inspector.I'm the only CWI here,and I like it that way-job security.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-11-2010 15:54
ASNT didn't have a program to qualify and certify visual inspectors until recently. Their VT covers much more than welding alone. It is geared more toward a "receiving  inspector" who is respnsible for a wide range of visual examination such as paint, wire cable, machined finishes, valves, etc. It is not focused on welding, although it is included in the body of knowledge.

A CWI, without additional training, would be hard pressed to pass the ASNT VT examinations. That said, the individual that holds a VT certification per SNT-TC-1A, CP-189, or ACCP would probably have a difficult time with the level of detail required to pass the CWI without additional training.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Ringo (***) Date 03-11-2010 16:20
I thought the ACCP was the ASNT version of a visual inspector.Isn't that the one you can just pay the cash and get the cert if you're already a CWI?
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 03-11-2010 16:32
You're thinking about the reciprocity of an AWS CWI and an ASNT ACCP VT Level II a few years back. These two organizations recognized each others certs and offered the CWI a grandfather clause that allowed the CWI to obtain an ASTN ACCP VT Level II, provided they took the harder J1 eye exam and paid the fee. This ACCP Level II cert was also contingent on the CWI keeping his CWI cert up to date and not letting it expire.
Parent - - By jrw159 (*****) Date 03-11-2010 17:03
Yep, I just recently acquired my ASNT ACCP VT level II.

jrw159
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-11-2010 17:32
As you note, reciprocity is for Level II. Level III VT is a different ball of wax and is in line with my comments. Thanks for the clarification.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By jrw159 (*****) Date 03-11-2010 19:00
Al,
  Yes, I was only commenting on level II. Level III sounds pretty interesting in that it covers such a broad range.

jrw159
Parent - By Ringo (***) Date 03-11-2010 17:38
Right on.I thought about getting mine,but I was waiting to see if it was going to be a job requirement before I threw down the cash.In aviation they just refer to CWI.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Is just having a CWI not good enough anymore?

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