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Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Rebar Question
- - By Blaster (***) Date 02-18-2010 18:04
Please excuse what must seem like a very simplistic question. 

There is no welder qualification in the D1.1 that would qualify a welder to do any form of rebar welding, correct?  The welder would have to qualify under D1.4 in order to weld rebar in any configuration, right?

Just want to make sure I am not overlooking something.

Thanks
Parent - By eekpod (****) Date 02-18-2010 18:29
D1.1 Section 1 Scope

1.2 Limitations-...."The Structural Welding Committee encourages the Engineer to consider the applicability of other AWS D1 codes for applications involving aluminum D1.2, sheet steel equal to or less than 3/13" thick AWD D1.3, reinforcing steel AWS D1.4." 

D1.4 Section 1 Scope

1.2.1 Application "This code shall be used in conjunction with the prescribed general building code specification and is applicable to all welding of reinforcing steel..."

D1.4 section 6 is qualification, and section 7 is inspection.
So to answer your question that D1.1 is not applicable, you should you D1.4
Chris
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-18-2010 18:32
I don't have a current copy of D1.4, but.....in D1.4:98 6.1.3.1 says...Welders who perform code work shall be qualified in conformance with 6.3 prior to production welding.

Another side note regarding the WPSs....6.1.2.1 says WPS qualification by testing in conformance with 6.2 shall be required for all joint types except that WPS for fillet welds shall be considered prequalified and exempt from testing.

7.4.1 says  The Inspector shall permit welding to be performed only by welders who are qualified in accordance with the requirements of this code.
Parent - - By Blaster (***) Date 02-18-2010 19:41
Thanks!

That is the way I read it too.

I really appreciate the fast responses.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-19-2010 05:41 Edited 02-19-2010 05:54
Since we are talking about 'rebar", I had to qualify several welders on rebar the other day.

They had to take a fillet weld test using #8 bars welded to a 1 1/2 inch thick plate. No big deal, until you really try to do the test and find out there is very little information on how to do the test.

Simple issues come up such as:
How long should the bars be? The only length mentioned is not applicable to the bars used for the fillet test.

What bend radius should be used? If you use a short bar and hit the end, the bars will be forced to bend at a tight radius forcing the HAZ to fail.
                                              If you use a long bar, there is a very large bend radius and even a marginal weld can pass.
                                              Use a pipe to bend the bar; if the pipe is slide down to the weld the stresses are so high even a good weld will break in the HAZ or the weld. If the pipe is held far from the weld, it will bend the bar with a large radius and relatively low stresses will once again allow poor welds to pass.

My conclusion is that essential information has been omitted relative to the fillet weld test.

I ended up using 10 inch long bars. Once they were welded they were bent with a length of pipe. However, I tack welded a rod extending 6 inches beyond the pipe end. What was my rational? I had none. I used the SWAG method. Was it a good test? Who knows? Two welders had to repeat the test because the welds failed through the HAZ when the pipe was placed too close to the weld, thus the reason the 6 inch extension was welded to the pipe. The entire fillet weld and HAZ were left intact on the 1 1/2 inch thick plate and the stub end of the rebar reduced to about 5/8 inch in diameter.

The two other welders that tried to use the "push" technique all failed because of internal porosity. As soon as they switched  to the pull technique (as I told them to do), they passed without a problem.

Did they have a WPS? Yes, but none of them could read English and I don't write Polish or Russian.

The top photograph depicts the test assembly w/ two test pieces as per D1.4. The second photo is the calibrated testing machine - directed energy loading device (Pat. Pending). If you look very closely you can see the rod that was tack welded to the pipe to ensure everyone was tested the same way, i.e., the load was applied 6 X the bar diameter from the end of the bar. That resulted in a uniform bend radius on each piece tested. Is it the right bend radius? Show me in D1.4 where it says to use something different.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-19-2010 12:30
Don't forget about watching out for the grade of bar...this opens up a whole nother can-o-worms.
Parent - - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-19-2010 13:21
Good point John.

These were A706 Gr 60.

Best regards - Al
Parent - By eekpod (****) Date 02-19-2010 13:56
Al,

I see where you are coming from in regards to the bend test, makes sence what you did and the theory behind it is sound.  It is odd that there isn't more of a guidline.
Chris
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 02-19-2010 14:24
Al,  I think you forgot one other element that I believe is critical information as to the conducting of this test....

How much does the guy weigh on the end of the test lever?  That would be important to know so I can figure out how many foot pounds of energy went into those bends!!!

Oh, and maybe the exact length of that test lever (pipe)?

That should do it.

LOL  Have a Great Day,  Brent
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 02-19-2010 18:05
"whole nother"

?????????

Where is Spell Check when you need the guy?
Parent - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-19-2010 18:32
hahahaha....how about the can-o-worms?...will that muster the Spell Check test?
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 02-19-2010 14:06
Al,
I don't think that I've dealt with qualifying for just fillet welds with D1.4....Hmm, maybe that is why I didn't see the situation that you pointed out about the lack of direction and guidance of preparing the fillet weld test and evaluation......Full pen splices qualify automatically the welder for placing fillet welds.(6.3.3.1)
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 02-19-2010 19:23
The difficult part of using the calibrated variable directed force loading device is calibrating the operator. I am thinking that I need to do so in the units of "stones"; which means I would have to get a collection of big ones and small ones, and some in-between. Then I could say the applied force was 6 big stones, 2 medium stones, and 1 small stone. That should fit slide right into with the technical aspects of D1.4. ;)

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By ctacker (****) Date 04-21-2011 04:38 Edited 04-21-2011 04:48
I realize this is an old thread, I have a job coming up with A706 Gr. 60 rebar, welded to A36 plate using fillets(FCAW), I see the part about prequalified for fillets, Am I correct to assume all I need to do is write a prequalified WPS to cover the welding on this project? or am I missing something?

Edit: I do have welders that qualified for WABO reinforcment bars,Indirect But Joint with Flare bevel joints,  So I don't need to qualify welders as they are qualified to weld fillets on #4 and up.  they used the testing agency's WPS.
Parent - By 99205 (***) Date 04-21-2011 06:44
There's a note in WABO 27-13 regarding the FCAW filler metal that you may want to check otherwise you are on track.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Inspection & Qualification / Rebar Question

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