Injection pumps 2001 Dodge

Date 03-15-2010 13:52

Do you have a fuel pressure gauge on your truck? The vp44 inj. pump uses fuel to lubricate itself. If the supply fuel pressure goes below 5psi, the injection pump will die. Your supply pump may be giving up the ghost. If you don't want to install a gauge, hook a fuel pressure gauge up to the port on top of the fuel filter mount and monitor under load if you can. The supply pump may be giving just enough fuel under load to keep the truck going but not enough to lube the injection pump. This is a common problem with 1998½ to 2002 24v trucks.

This truck is a diesel, right?

http://www.genosgarage.com/prodinfo.asp?number=AM-4360%20UL

Jon

By JLWelding (***)

Date 03-16-2010 01:30 Edited 03-16-2010 01:35

Thanks Jon
I should have said in my post that I put a airdog 100 fuel pump 15lbs at idling when the first one went out. I also been running two stroke oil at 1 oz. to the gal. to lub inj pump.

By nevadanick (**)

Date 03-15-2010 15:03

What is the performance problem that makes you replace the pump ? Have you cracked open one of the old ones to see what happened ?

By JLWelding (***)

Date 03-16-2010 01:33

No sir I have not opened one, I saw one open on the net.
It has a computer in the injection pump to control the timing, thats why I was wondering if a magnetic feild may be the problem.

By nevadanick (**)

Date 03-16-2010 14:34

Ok, what is the condition when they fail ? no start ? low power ?

By JLWelding (***)

Date 03-16-2010 16:08

The last two pumps will die and in about two seconds fire right back up. It died on me like that well over 100 times in ten miles and never threw a code, neither pump ever threw a code. And as the outside temp gets hoter the more it will die. Low power comes and goes.Fuel pressure is 15 at idel and 13.75 at wot.

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 03-16-2010 20:07

Nick, the condition when they fail is what is called "dead pedal". For example, I was coasting down a mountain and when I got to the bottom I hit the go pedal and there was nothing, then suddenly she bucked and away we went. The roads south of Atlanta were like riding on a washboard and occasionally I would have dead pedal. I pushed in the clutch, shut off the key and turned right back on. I would then have pedal to go again. On the way back when I got into TN the highways were smoother and it didn't do it for nearly 200 miles, until I tried pulling in my steep driveway with a 6k tractor behind me. It won't turn on the check engine light usually, found out my codes by cycling the key switch , on-off-on-off-on and down where the odometer is it would flash the codes. Seems like it was a 1627, or 1637, something like that, they call that the "death code"!!!

By nevadanick (**)

Date 03-18-2010 12:20

ok, I understand now, definetly sounds electrical

By Johnyutah (**)

Date 03-15-2010 19:11

FASS or Air Dog those are the lift pumps to buy, and you have to have a fuel pressure gauge on those trucks. I run FASS pumps on mine with no problems also the Edge juice with attitude comes with a fuel pressure monitor. You can also upgrade your injection pump and its well worth the money but the problem is definitely your lift pump.

By JeremyW83 (***)

Date 03-16-2010 00:31

I second the FASS. They also have a replacement oem pump that can be mounted to the original place. If you go with that route I would recommend going to a 3/8" line and a draw straw and move it to the frame rail by the tank. There has been some that say that the high temps from the engine lead to the fail of the oem carter fuel pump.

By JLWelding (***)

Date 03-16-2010 01:48

I am not sure but I think my problem might be my scumbag exemployee, I think he may have welded on the bed. My son came to me about that today. I guess we will find out.
I unhooked the batt. cables when I welded on the bed to install bed and that pump went out, I am thinking just unhooking the batts. is not the ansewer. When I installed welder before my sa200 nuts were welded to bottom of frame to bolt down, not sure the batt. was unhooked then or not,I was not there. And that pump went out.

By Johnyutah (**)

Date 03-16-2010 15:36

Did you run a larger fuel line when you installed the Air Dog and are the replacement pumps new or rebuilds. I have welded many times on my beds and never had a problem all the problems I had were when the pickup bed was still on. My point is if the line size is not increased the gauge may still read good pressure at idle but could drop under acceleration then the injection pump will hit dry. At full throttle my trucks never drop below 8 lbs when I start hitting 6 lbs I change both filters.

By JLWelding (***)

Date 03-16-2010 16:01

Yes sir , 1/2 inch lines

By RioCampo (***)

Date 03-16-2010 16:22

Are you getting all these pumps from the same place? There are several suppliers that offer much better pumps than you can buy stock for the ve style pumps. Check out www.cumminsforum.com there are some good suppliers on there and lots of information on the ve style pumps. I have had several ve pumped dodges and never had any trouble weather i was welding on the bed or not.
One more thing, I read an article that compared fuel treatments awhile back that actually showed 2 cycle oil was worse than nothing at all. I'll see if I can find the link to it.

By JLWelding (***)

Date 03-16-2010 16:34

Yea if you can that would be great. If you go to Mopar1973man.com that is where I found the 2 stroke deal.

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 03-16-2010 19:56 Edited 03-16-2010 20:01

My pump died a few years ago, dead pedal hauling a 6k tractor, luckily she kept going til we got back home. Fuel pressure gauge is good to have, from what I have learned and what a few techs have told me is that it's not about the pressure, it's the flow. The stock fuel lines were to small add in the junky electric fuel pump and wham bam. The injection pump is lubricated and cooled by diesel fuel alone. Inside the vp are your electronics, which overheated can go bunk, not enough fuel flow and.....well you know.

Here's a link for vp44,

http://www.bluechipdiesel.com/VP44INFO.html
http://www.thoroughbreddiesel.com/bosch/vp44-injector-pump.htm

Someone posted about going to www.cumminsforum.com, that's where I would go....I mean I do go.

Hopefully the fass/airdog holds up. Have been hearing some mutterings about shoddy warranty claim service and things from several people on several of the diesel forums. Glacier Diesel has a sweet belt driven pump that mounts under the hood, no electric pump under the frame to catch salt, mud and whatever else. Besides, that father and son dispute over there at fass/airdog is enough to make me want to puke.

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 03-16-2010 20:10

Oh, and as much money as your spending on pumps you could do a "P pump" conversion, pump from a 12v on a 24v, get rid of that bosch turd completely. The conversions a bit on the pricey side though.

By RioCampo (***)

Date 03-16-2010 19:44

Jl my info came from the sam place. I must correct myself. It states using 2 cycle oil doesn't meet ULSD requirements and may damage 2007 and newer engined. I sure would not want the comptrollers agents to stop me and give me a ticket for that. Those tickets start at $1000 and $28 dollars per gallon of capacity.
Here is the link:

http://mopar.mopar1973man.com/tips/cummins/general/2-cycle-oil/hfrr/hfrr.htm

THE RESULTS:

These results are listed in the order of performance in the HFRR test. The baseline fuel used in every test started at an HFRR score of 636. The score shown is the tested HFRR score of the baseline fuel/additive blend.
Also included is the wear scar improvement provided by the additive as well as other claimed benefits of the additive. Each additive is also categorized as a Multi-purpose additive, Multi-purpose + anti-gel, Lubricity only, non-conventional, or as an additive capable of treating both gasoline and diesel fuel.
As a convenience to the reader there is also information on price per treated tank of diesel fuel (using a 26 gallon tank), and dosage per 26 gallon tank provided as “ounces of additive per 26 gallon tank”.

In Order Of Performance:

1) 2% REG SoyPower biodiesel
HFRR 221, 415 micron improvement.
50:1 ratio of baseline fuel to 100% biodiesel
66.56 oz. of 100% biodiesel per 26 gallons of diesel fuel
Price: market value

2)Opti-Lube XPD
Multi-purpose + anti-gel
cetane improver, demulsifier
HFRR 317, 319 micron improvement.
256:1 ratio
13 oz/tank
$4.35/tank

3)FPPF RV, Bus, SUV Diesel/Gas fuel treatment
Gas and Diesel
cetane improver, emulsifier
HFRR 439, 197 micron improvement
640:1 ratio
5.2 oz/tank
$2.60/tank

4)Opti-Lube Summer Blend
Multi-purpose
demulsifier
HFRR 447, 189 micron improvement
3000:1 ratio
1.11 oz/tank
$0.68/tank

5)Opti-Lube Winter Blend
Muti-purpose + anti-gel
cetane improver
HFRR 461, 175 micron improvement
512:1 ratio
6.5 oz/tank
$3.65/tank

6)Schaeffer Diesel Treat 2000
Multi-purpose + anti-gel
cetane improver, emulsifier, bio-diesel compatible
HFRR 470, 166 micron improvement
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$1.87/tank

7)Super Tech Outboard 2-cycle TC-W3 engine oil
Unconventional (Not ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 or newer systems)
HFRR 474, 162 micron improvement
200:1 ratio
16.64 oz/tank
$1.09/tank

8)Stanadyne Lubricity Formula
Lubricity Only
demulsifier, 5% bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free
HFRR 479, 157 micron improvement
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$1.00/tank

9)Amsoil Diesel Concentrate
Multi-purpose
demulsifier, bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free
HFRR 488, 148 micron improvement
640:1 ratio
5.2 oz/tank
$2.16/tank

10)Power Service Diesel Kleen + Cetane Boost
Multi-purpose
Cetane improver, bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free
HFRR 575, 61 micron improvement
400:1 ratio
8.32 oz/tank
$1.58/tank

11)Howe’s Meaner Power Kleaner
Multi-purpose
Alcohol free
HFRR 586, 50 micron improvement
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$1.36/tank

12)Stanadyne Performance Formula
Multi-purpose + anti-gel
cetane improver, demulsifier, 5% bio-diesel compatible, alcohol free
HFRR 603, 33 micron improvement
480:1 ratio
6.9 oz/tank
$4.35/tank

13)Used Motor Oil, Shell Rotella T 15w40, 5,000 miles used.
Unconventional (Not ULSD compliant, may damage systems)
HFRR 634, 2 micron improvement
200:1 ratio
16.64 oz/tank
price: market value

14)Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant
Gas or diesel
HFRR 641, 5 microns worse than baseline (statistically insignificant change)
427:1 ratio
7.8 oz/tank
$2.65/tank

15)B1000 Diesel Fuel Conditioner by Milligan Biotech
Multi-purpose, canola oil based additive
HFRR 644, 8 microns worse than baseline (statistically insignificant change)
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$2.67/tank

16)FPPF Lubricity Plus Fuel Power
Multi-purpose + anti-gel
Emulsifier, alcohol free
HFRR 675, 39 microns worse than baseline fuel
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$1.12/tank

17)Marvel Mystery Oil
Gas, oil and Diesel fuel additive (NOT ULSD compliant, may damage 2007 and newer systems)
HFRR 678, 42 microns worse than baseline fuel.
320:1 ratio
10.4 oz/tank
$3.22/tank

18)ValvTect Diesel Guard Heavy Duty/Marine Diesel Fuel Additive
Multi-purpose
Cetane improver, emulsifier, alcohol free
HFRR 696, 60 microns worse than baseline fuel
1000:1 ratio
3.32 oz/tank
$2.38/tank

19)Primrose Power Blend 2003
Multi-purpose
Cetane boost, bio-diesel compatible, emulsifier
HFRR 711, 75 microns worse than baseline
1066:1 ratio
3.12 oz/tank
$1.39/tank

CONCLUSIONS:

Products 1 through 4 were able to improve the unadditized fuel to an HFRR score of 460 or better. This meets the most strict requirements requested by the Engine Manufacturers Association.
Products 1 through 9 were able to improve the unadditized fuel to an HFRR score of 520 or better, meeting the U.S. diesel fuel requirements for maximum wear scar in a commercially available diesel fuel.
Products 16 through 19 were found to cause the fuel/additive blend to perform worse than the baseline fuel. The cause for this is speculative. This is not unprecedented in HFRR testing and can be caused by alcohol or other components in the additives. Further investigation into the possibilities behind these poor results will investigated.
Any additive testing within +/- 20 microns of the baseline fuel could be considered to have no significant change. The repeatability of this test allows for a +/- 20 micron variability to be considered insignificant.

CREDITS:

This study would not have been possible without the participation of all companies involved and dieselplace.com. A special Thank You to all of the dieselplace.com members who generously donated toward this study and waited longer than they should have for the results. You folks are the best. Arlen Spicer, organizer.
__________________
"03 2500 HD, Kennedy Mega Filter, STOCK PAPER AIR FILTER, Oilguard Bypass, Primrose, Baldwin Oil Filter, ARE Camper Shell, Line X Liner, Westin Nerf Bars.
Last edited by blizzardplowman : 09-01-2007 at 01:03 PM. Reason: posters request

By JeremyW83 (***)

Date 03-16-2010 20:35

Another supplier for VPs is www.mwfi.com Midwest Fuel Injection they dont charge the core charge up front and you have 30 days to return it. It also comes with a 1 year warranty but if you tap the fueling wire it will be voided.

By JLWelding (***)

Date 03-16-2010 21:40

Thanks for the replys

By JeremyW83 (***)

Date 03-17-2010 01:23

Another question in all of the times that you have replaced the injector pump have you ever gotten any codes pulled. On the 2000 or 2001 you can do what is called the key trick-flip the ingintion forward to start but dont three times in rapid succession and stop on the third. PCM and ECM codes if any will sometimes be displayed in the odometer window. Or you could just get the 1696. This is a companion code and you will need to get a proper code reader to see what is saved on the computer. Also have you ever replaced the fuel pump that is mounted to the engine under the fuel filter housing.

By JLWelding (***)

Date 03-18-2010 01:14

The only vp44 that threw a code was the first one 216 death code.the other three have surging, missing, lugging, die for a split second and start right back up and no codes.
Fuel pump is a Airdog thats been on there for two years,14.75 idle 13.50 wot.
I really think it is due to being welded on. My exemployee welded on it I know. I also under stand you need to unhook the pos and neg. when you weld on truck, that I did not do I just unhooked the neg. so that may be the problem.

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 03-19-2010 11:13

JL, I've welded on my truck quite a bit with modifications to the bed, welding off the back on the vise and so on and have had no problems. But, you did say employees so their idea of a "good ground" close to your work may not be the same as the owner of the rig who has to pay for the stuff when it's f'd up. As far as unhooking the battery I've heard that will not completely isolate the problem as your computer(truck/engine) have seperate grounds all over the place and spikes could still get through. Personally I'm not convinced that it is from welding, unless the employees are grounding on rusty, oily, dirt covered steel 10 feet from where they are welding. I always make sure I have shiny metal for my ground clamp and it's right next to where I need to weld or at least within a couple feet. Same VP and no problems.

One thing I do is when the weather breaks and temps won't dip much lower, I start running a B20 bio. Bean oil is has great lubrication properties, smells funny and around here about .10 higher than regular dyno fuel.

By JLWelding (***)

Date 03-19-2010 17:39

Man I agree with ya on the grounding but the only other thing I can come up with is the Edge Ez. It did have some corrosion in the plug . Thats what Edge told me and they sent me another new unit for 99.00 the cost of check up. I am at a lost, I have cleaned all grounds except the one behind the starter, you got to pull to get to it. I stuck a screw driver in there and it is tight.

By Cumminsguy71 (*****)

Date 03-20-2010 04:23

You said Edge, did you do the wire tap on the pump? I've heard some problems associated with that if I remember correctly. Usually voids pump warranties if you tap the wire, so as said, I'm not sure exactly what it does but some folks out there know something I don't if they won't warranty it after the wire tap.

By JLWelding (***)

Date 03-21-2010 17:24

Yea I am with you on the tap, no warrenty. It is a Edge Ez and I am hereing people say to get the comp. (dont tap the box) or the other one cant think of name at this time. I have done a lot of checking over the last 15 months and you can here everthing from dont weld on it to dont slam the door,lol. I really think it is in the old Edge Ez, the new ez has only been on the truck maybe 3 weeks, but the damage was allready done.I have no choise but to remove the Ez. to find out where the problem is coming from. Got rid of employee so no more welding on the bed.
I really wont to thank everybody for the replys it helps to talk it thru.

By 63 Max

Date 03-22-2010 02:07

Cumminsforum is a great place for info on our trucks. Also when you tap the VP are you using the rtv sealer so water cannot get to it. I weld on my bed and I have the edge juice w/attitude programer and the airdog 100 on a 98.5 24V. It has about 200K on this VP.

By JLWelding (***)

Date 03-23-2010 01:25

There is no tap. If I go thru this again it will be p pumped or set on fire.