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Up Topic Welding Industry / ASME Codes / IX Question about tacking
- - By swsweld (****) Date 03-15-2010 22:50
B31.1 is the code. SMAW is the process. I've searched weldings best forum (AWS) and looked through Section IX and 31.1 but I cannot find anyway for a person to tack pipe joints together without being fully qualified by taking a groove weld test.

My intent was to have the person to fit/tack the joints and the fully qualified welders weld the joints. The joints have backing rings but still do not see a way to do this within the boundaries of the code. There is no tack test and a fillet weld test doesn't qualify either even with the backing rings.The fitter can weld and is qualified in other codes (I know, irrelevant) but he is not quite ready for the pipe test.

I do not want to make bridge tacks or temporary attachments that must be removed.
My only hope is that if the tacks were completely removed by grinding, would that be acceptable?
I do not think it would be but hope to hear from others on this matter. Not that it matters but the welds are subject to RT so I am not looking to cut corners in favor of production.

Thank in advance for any comments.
Parent - - By G.S.Crisi (****) Date 03-15-2010 23:32
You're right. Tack welds used to keep the two pipe ends in place before start welding must be applied by a qualified welder.
Giovanni S. Crisi
Sao Paulo - Brazil
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 03-16-2010 02:17
328.5.1(c) Tack welds at the root of the joint shall be made with filler metal equivalent to that used in the root pass. Tack welds shall be made by a qualified welder or welding operator. etc
Parent - - By Shane Feder (****) Date 03-16-2010 04:56
Would a 5F fillet weld test be applicable ?
Regards,
Shane
Parent - - By jon20013 (*****) Date 03-16-2010 11:03
I like thinking outside the box Shane :) That said, as I see it, as there are backing rings involved it is a butt joint.  Even for tack welding, I don't believe fillets qualify for butts.
Parent - By scrappywelds (***) Date 03-25-2010 00:53
how about bridge tacks by unqualified welder, then being removed by a qualified welder duing welding operations?
Parent - - By swsweld (****) Date 04-03-2010 02:15
Thanks for the helpful replies everyone. Got busy and haven't logged on in a while. Jon, I don't have 328 in my 2004 section IX. Is that from a more current version or did I not get the full code? QW 322.2 then QW 350. Or did you get the teachers version :)
Parent - By Shane Feder (****) Date 04-03-2010 04:34
swsweld,
Jon is probably sunning himself in wherethehellamistan so will answer for him - he has quoted B31.3, not ASME IX.
Regards,
Shane
- - By AceMet (*) Date 03-25-2010 14:55
The ASME Code is clear that tack welds must be made by qualified welders.  Get him qualified for the pipe.  Tack welds that are to be RT'ed better be good.  It is fuzzy thinking to categorize tack welds as less difficult to make as those of pipe welds.  Tack welds are just as important as the groove weld.  Carefully write an RFI showing a plan to get him qualified but in the interim show that all of the areas of tack welds will be RT'ed and accepted.  You don't have 6 inches of weld for the RT; but reference QW 302.2 and QW 304 to show that RT can be used to qualify a welder.  Take care in this approach as you don't want to imply that he isn't good enough to weld on the pipe.  Good luck.
Parent - - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 03-25-2010 20:11 Edited 03-25-2010 20:19
but in asme what  if the tacks are ground out?
In D1.1 general req for tacks
Tack welds are subject to the same quality requirments as the final weld.

My question is does this mean visual requirments only, or does it mean you need a wps?
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 03-25-2010 20:20
B31.1 para 127.4.1 (C) "Tack welds made by an unqualified welder shall be removed."
Parent - By swsweld (****) Date 04-03-2010 02:35
B31.1 para 127.4.1 (C) "Tack welds permitted to remain in the finished weld shall be made by a qualified welder."
B31.1 para 127.4.1 (C) "Tack welds made by an unqualified welder shall be removed."

Thanks for that js55.

With backing rings, I tell the welders that they are to proceed as if all of the tacks are bad unless they made the tacks. If it was open butt welds where they could examine the ID and OD that would not be my instruction. They grind most of the weld metal on the tack down and feather the start and stop to ensure that the tacker, if not the welder making the joint, did not leave any defects. Therefore I won't ever have to hear this excuse from the welder if a rejected RT on his weld occurs; "Must of been in the tack, I know my stuff was right."

Not that welders make excuses. I'm just saying...
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 03-25-2010 20:27
A WPS is not a quality requirement. Its a welding instruction.
Parent - - By 3.2 Inspector (***) Date 03-26-2010 05:33
You can add common sence when tacking certain materials and/or thick components, then preheat should be higher than for welding.

3.2
Parent - - By ssbn727 (*****) Date 03-26-2010 16:06
Ease up on the "spirits" there dude!!! :) :) :)
Parent - By 3.2 Inspector (***) Date 03-26-2010 17:21
ehm...?

3.2
Parent - By 3.2 Inspector (***) Date 04-06-2010 16:29
eheh...

Thought I made a reply to a wrong thread, it just turned our that (once again) you did not have a clue what I was talking about.

3.2
Up Topic Welding Industry / ASME Codes / IX Question about tacking

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