Not logged inAmerican Welding Society Forum
Forum AWS Website Help Search Login
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Different Procedures For Different Shifts?
- - By Ke1thk (**) Date 03-19-2010 12:49
I've been making a part for three years using a GTAW robot (3 million).  The part is a .750 x .028 tube with two .065 brackets welded.  The welds are small.  We decided to run them on a second shift. 

The program doesn’t run the same on each shift.  The heat increases causing unacceptable burn through on some of the parts.  We've tried; measuring the electricity at the entry point of the welder during both shifts, a separate gas tank instead of the bulk system, different tungsten diameters, new torch, outsourced electricians, and experts from the robot manufacture.  No solution.

I could adjust the program for the day shift only to hear negative feedback from the night shift.  I decided to write a separate program during the coldest (lowest electrical usage) and the hottest part of the day.  It works!

We decided to run an induction brazer at night to keep the robot crew company and sure enough, the parts are melting.

I don’t understand what is happening.  Should Weld Procedures include the time of day?

Keith
Parent - - By eekpod (****) Date 03-19-2010 13:31
Is it possible that the electrical supply to your facility is increasing during the other shifts because of the demand from other companies around your facility are drawing less power off the grid?

I mention this becasue we had a situation where we were going through transformers at a 100 yr old building.  These transformers supplied the entire property, not just out building.  After our own commercial electricians coulnd't figure out why some of our automated equiptment (drill line and saw) were burning out prematurely, they brought in the power supply people and sure enough it was something to do with the power being supplied to us was different at different parts of the day.  They took of off the same feed as some other companies around us and changed out some transformers and haven't had an issue since.  That was about 5-6 years ago.

I'n not an expert, just a suggestion
Chris
Parent - By 52757 (**) Date 03-19-2010 13:44
We use to have the same type of situation years ago. Our facility is in a rural farming area. Back in the days of the small farmers you could tell when all the milking machine etc fired up, you would have to reset your machine according to the time of day. With new transformers etc this problem was fixed.
Parent - By Mikeqc1 (****) Date 03-19-2010 15:58
We had the same issue at my shop years back.
It can happen.
MDK
Parent - By js55 (*****) Date 03-19-2010 14:36
You can get the Electric Company to chart what is coming into to your plant for free. Though I ain't no electrician, I suspect that is the problem, but your welding power sources should be able to accomodate a variance in input voltage within at least + or - 10% I'd guess.
We had the same problem at a plant I used to work at when we'd fire up the big induction bender.
Whether or not you impose another WPS is  up to you but it seems to me you have to impose some kind of control mechanism.
Parent - By aevald (*****) Date 03-19-2010 14:46
Hello Keith, I would certainly agree with both of the other respondents to your thread. With the scenario that you are describing there could certainly be an adverse effect being imposed on your equipment due to different levels of use on your power grid at different times of the day. I experienced a similar situation while working for a company in Portland, Ore. We could start out with our fabrication and welding in the morning with the machines set to specific parameters and close to around noon everything would go to hell concerning weld bead appearance and operational characteristics. Did some checking on input voltages to the machines and noticed a considerable voltage change from the morning to the afternoon. Our machines were of an older vintage and didn't have power factor correction or some of the new innovations that current day machines possibly have so I believe that in our case we were seeing some serious volt/amp swings that detrimentally effected our welds. Might be worth looking into some in-line tattle tales to make comparisons in the weld output characteristics of your machine at these different times. I know this technology is available at a price, don't know if there are possibly companies out there that could be contracted to come in and do a survey for you, maybe some of the other more knowledgeable folks on the forum might chime in and give some suggestions. Can certainly understand that sort of frustration, best of luck to you and best regards, Allan
Parent - - By DaveBoyer (*****) Date 03-20-2010 01:25
The voltage in Your plant is higher when there is less electrical load on the system. This could be an issue with the power in Your plant only, or on the entire regional power grid [low voltage at peak load].

Another variable that may affect Your plant voltage is power factor corectiion. Over corection at light load can increase line voltage.

At My home shop I notice low voltage in the late afternoon on hot days in the summer, about the time people come home from work, turn on the AC and cook dinner [everybody around here uses electric stoves].

I would compare line voltage on both shifts using a true RMS volt meter as well as a peak reading meeter if You could find one. Many modern power suplies do compensate for input voltage within a range, but You might be outside the range.
Parent - By Tommyjoking (****) Date 03-20-2010 02:17
This all sounds like your problem for sure....most types of CNC should be able to accommodate a pretty wide variance in power input, as most have a sophisticated power supply..including robots of course.      Another problem that may be occurring is you may be getting unbalanced phase in your facility due to its own wiring or your location on the grid.   Have the power company do an analysis of your input at both times of operation as suggested above...chances are they can fix it with some equipment fiddling, unless it is related to your internal wiring.
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / Different Procedures For Different Shifts?

Powered by mwForum 2.29.2 © 1999-2013 Markus Wichitill