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Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / thread fouling for nut retention
- - By willkane Date 03-19-2010 15:42
Apologies if this belongs in the Structural Bolting forum:

Has there been a discussion or treatment in the standards for the application of a small weld drop to the threads of a bolt in order to foul the threads and prevent the nut from backing out? In my head it doesn't seem to fall into normal classifications, even for a tack weld or something along those lines. Wondering about applicability in the standards or previous recommendations? Thanks so much!
Parent - - By CHGuilford (****) Date 03-19-2010 16:32
In general, most folks agree that welding of bolts isn't really a good idea - but it happens all the time.  We still get approved drawings that call out welding the nuts or the bolts.

It sounds like you have a situation that doesn't fit the building codes (fully tensioned bolts usually don't back off by themselves so those wouldn't need thread fouling).  If you are in doubt about welding, have you considered mashing the end threads between 2 hammers after installation?
Parent - - By willkane Date 03-19-2010 16:51
Thanks, Chet. Yeah another option is to just put a check into the threads with a chisel or such, but this is the particular technique that was used. We're dealing in this case with no torque/tensioning requirements and a vibration environment, but it sounds like there's not much in the literature concerning the technique. Thanks again
Parent - - By Bob Garner (***) Date 03-19-2010 17:50
We've started to specify Loc-tite on some of our critical fasteners.  But only on those allowed to be snug-tight (AISC).  Fully tensioned bolts are never given any treatment other than the AISC Code specified tightening.

In the past, we have specified peening the threads "with a 1/4" drift punch to a depth of 1/2 the thread depth in two opposing locations of the threads immediately against the nut".
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 03-20-2010 21:53
Another case of real world vs. what the experts say.

True be known, when a threaded fastener fails in tension, the failure occurs in the first thread that is engaged in the nut (closest to the unthreaded shank). The last thread, the one being upset or tack welded sees little if any load.

If the statement in the latter sentence is true, a small weld or even an arc strike on the exposed threads will do little to compromise the integrity of the threaded fastener. The heat introduced by the arc strike or tack weld, which is simply meant to foul the threads so the nut cannot back off, is not sufficient to temper the hardened threads where they engage the first few threads. It is the fear the welder will get carried away in an attempt to do a "good job" that is the cause for alarm. Should the welder actually deposit a weld of sufficient length, the temperature developed might be adequate to temper the hardened fastener and reduce the strength of the assembly.

In consideration of the "unknown factor" I would opt to use a chisel or center punch to upset the threads. However, if the company was to run several samples and "train" the welder on the amount of weld required, I suppose a couple of shear or tensile tests would be sufficient to establish whether the technique employed would render the welded assembly "unsafe.” 

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By jwright650 (*****) Date 03-22-2010 19:09
I didn't see this post until now....I replied in your other thread with a similar reply as the others in this one.
Parent - By willkane Date 03-23-2010 15:20
Thanks so much everyone! Great info!
Up Topic Welding Industry / Technical Discussions / thread fouling for nut retention

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