PJP Weld

Date 03-31-2010 04:41

It sounds like the joint penetration for the PJP is 3/8 inch. If that is indeed the case, the 3/8 should be enclosed by brackets like this: (3/8).

The joint is a skewed joint. If the weld required is on the obtuse side, at the end of the butting member, the welding symbol with the correction noted above would work. However, there is nothing that makes the designer's wishes known better than a sketch of exactly what he has in mind. The detail should show the amount of joint penetration required with the appropriate dimensions.

Best regards - Al

By Mwccwi

Date 04-01-2010 08:43

The way that I read A2.4:2007
‘6.2.7 Depth of Bevel Specified, Groove weld Size Not Specified. A welding symbol with a depth of bevel specified, and groove weld size not included and not specified elsewhere, may be used to specify a groove weld size not less than the depth of bevel.”

The word “may” make this spec. kind of ambiguous, which kind of validates Al’s response. Often in the factories that I work in, I find that there are usually additional notes on the print such as “all welds to X size”. Typically I find that after discussion with the print detailer that the Groove Weld symbol use on the skewed joint is an attempt to specify to fill the groove of the joint orientation to flush to achieve 3/8” weld throat.

Check out this interesting article.

http://www.weldinginnovation.com/pdfs/papers/design_file102.pdf

By CHGuilford (****)

Date 04-01-2010 16:29

Usually when we see that joint detail on our drawings, the detailer means that s/he wants what amounts to the equivalent fillet weld size. In your case it's 3/8". No prep. Kind of a skewed fillet.

This doesn't mean that's the right way to show that - it only means that when we ask for clarification that's usually the answer we get. If you're in doubt, you should send in an RFI.

By 803056

Date 04-02-2010 03:57 Edited 04-02-2010 04:05

I stand by my original post and say, "go back to the detailer and ask him/her to do the job he or she is paid to do."

No one, the welder, the inspector, or anyone other than the detailer knows what the actual requirement is. The symbol is wrong, plain and simple. No one should have to guess what the welding requirements are. Since this is posted under D1, D1.1 has several clauses addressing the skewed joints and how they are to be detailed on the structural design drawings and how they are to be detailed by the fabricator (detailer) on the shop drawings. D1.1 modifies or clarifies the requirements for how a welding symbol is interpreted. Simply listing the bevel depth to the left of the weld symbol and the notation "PJP" in the tail doesn't meet the requirements of D1.1. Groove welds are CJP unless the bevel depth and the weld size are listed as "S (E)".

Welders get paid to weld, inspectors are paid to inspect, and damn it, detailers should do what they are paid to do! If the welder screws up too many welds he or she is taken to task, likewise for the inspector. This is a situation where the detailer should jump through hoops to make it clear to everyone what the welding requirements are lest he/she looks like a bumbling fool.

Any inspector that would take a "guess" at what the detailer wants is skating on thin ice. Guessing what the detailer thoughts are is dangerous to say the least. A simple telephone call would or should do the trick. Then again, there is always the idiot detailer that uses the 3/4 circle at the intersect of the arrow and reference line as being "almost all the way around the joint."

Best regards - Al

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 04-02-2010 05:58

BRAVO Al!!!
If I had a dime for all of the times I ad to work from drawings where the welding symbols were incomplete, I would be a millionaire by now!!! Seriously!!!

May I wish you a Happy and Safe Easter for you and your family Al y Que Dios te Bendigas Siempre Amigo!!!
Translation: "May God Bless You Always Friend!" ;)

Respectfully,
Henry

By 803056

Date 04-02-2010 22:30

The same to you Henry and to everyone that visits this Forum.

Best regards - Al