Building up Welds.

Date 04-08-2010 17:30

can't as in he's not allowed to build up the section per code spec.

or can't as in it's not possible/ really hard to accomplish?

Besides engineer approval I believe it would need some type of WPS/repair rework procedure. AND the welded would have to be certified for a weld that size. I can't picture the geometry off the top of my head. Is this a pad weld or a fillet or what?

By Squanto (*)

Date 04-08-2010 21:59

I know he can do that weld he says that hes not suppose to per some code that I cant find and he cant remember. Not sure where he got his info. the welds are just fillet welds. nothing fancy just a 24" long vertical fillet weld.

By ssbn727 (*****)

Date 04-09-2010 05:26

Hi Squanto!

Perhaps if you would kindly provide us with a rough sketch (Not too rough I might add. LOL! ;) ) so that we could visualize better what you're attempting to describe here.

Also, If this welder cannot cite verbatim in D1.1 where it states that this is not allowed, and you get clarification from the EOR as to whether or not to allow it or not, then the issue is moot after the EOR's decision which will be final. Now there are a whole lot of unknowns with respect to the particulars regarding your query, so it's critical to make sure that you go over the specifics with the EOR since they're the one's engineering this job, not the supervisors or the inspectors because this is simply a decision that must be made by qualified engineer and not supervision or inspection...

That is, unless you don't mind becoming potentially liable for making a decision that was not your responsibility, or obligation to do so in the first place.
Bottom line is, get it clarified by the EOR (Engineer Of Record) before going any further which is the way to CYA in these types of situations - CAPECHE??? :)

Respectfully,
Henry

By Squanto (*)

Date 04-12-2010 16:04

Here is what we are looking to do?

Attachment: 20100412110124360.jpg - simple enough (17k)

By waccobird (****)

Date 04-09-2010 18:01 Edited 04-09-2010 22:29

Squanto
As Henry states not enough information for a beneficial answer.
#1 What size is called for/ What size is already there?
#2 Service of parts being joined?
These are just some of the questions that come to my thoughts before submitting an answer for you question.
AWS D1.1 gives limits of acceptability of undersized welds and leaves the over size (with proper profile) basically alone because who would want to waste money applying more weld than necessary.
Just my ¢¢'s
Marshall
Edit: D1.1 Clause 5.26 Repairs Last sentence Weld Metal shall be deposited to compensate for any deficiency in size.

By js55

Date 04-09-2010 12:47

Yes, I certainly wouldn't let a welder confuse the issue.
There the biggest bullsh$%%ers of all. I know. I was one.
Well, except maybe for welding engineers.
No, QC managers take the cake.
OK, salesmen, but thats my final offer.
Maybe marketing managers.

By 803056

Date 04-09-2010 15:44 Edited 04-09-2010 21:19

Thanks I needed a good laught this morning. :)

Engineers design (sometimes),
Welders weld (sometimes), and
Inspectors inspect (once in a while).

Management needs to set the welder down and have a heart to heart with him. If he wants to manage the work then he has to step up to the plate and join the opposing team. Oops, that isn't right, management and workers are supposed to be on the same team.

Anyway, this is a case of the tail wagging the dog unless the welder can cite a specific code clause that prohibits the work he is directed to do. Unless the work instructions present an immediate danger to life or limb, even if the welder is right, his function is to follow the direction provided by management once he has voiced his opinion. If they are wrong, management will have to answer for their actions. The shop will close due to litigation. Members of the management team will grant each other a large bonus and the workers will get the proverbial goose.

Best regards - Al

By js55

Date 04-09-2010 17:03

Back when I was young and knew even less about the code than I do now, if you can imagine, I had a grizzled and very well respected welder once tell me that according to the code when looking for alternative filler metals you can go up but you can't go down in number.
In other words, 316 can replace 308, 9 chrome can replace 5 chrome. etc.
To a certain extent it has some really good logic.
But this of course completely ignores the P-No system and service specifics.
And just the logic of it breaks down if you consider replacing say, 309 with 316.
I spent some time looking for this in the code before I realized I was stupid.
Not as stupid as he. At least I questioned it and never actually utilized the method.
But the lesson well learned is, welders aren't exaclty the code expert guys to consult, even if they have been around so long that, as the joke goes, their first Christmas WAS the first Christmas.

By sooeey2u (*)

Date 09-01-2010 17:54

Per ASME Sec VIII Div 1, UW-42 Surface Weld Metal Buildup, you may restore by weld metal build up.

By 803056

Date 09-02-2010 04:48

And just how did you decide ASME is applicable to this query ?

Al

By Shane Feder (****)

Date 09-02-2010 14:28

Al,
Read half the posts and headed off to refill my "medicine" and was thinking - a classic case of tail wagging the dog. Sat back down and lo and behold, that was your opinion as well.
My 2 cents worth.
1 Based on the original post the OP is the employer so the welder does not decide what can or cannot be welded. (unless it is physically impossible to weld)
2 If the additional welding is covered by the original WPS (fillet size) or another applicable WPS and preheat and other variables are complied with then no problem at all.
3 ASME is not applicable

Regards,
Shane