After reading all the answers from my questions below and researching as much as I can on my own, I'm really starting to wonder if a small TIG welder would be the right answer for me, or perhaps a small Plasma Arc Welder. I'm making some metal furniture, so the appearance of the weld is just as important as it's strength. (In fact, someone suggested that I consider TIG in one of the answers below.) I realize it's slow compared to self-shielding FCAW or MIG, but then most of my time so far has been spent grinding, not welding. In addition to doing neat welds on furniture, I'd like to be able to (if needed) weld something fairly thick (like 1/4" steel) for my small tractor/loader. I don't have anything to do in aluminum yet, but I'd certainly like to plan ahead and make sure I can do aluminum if/when the need/urge arises. (This is all pretty much "hobby" stuff at this point, not production work of any sort.) TIG sounds like a good possible solution, since I could (I hope!) do very neat welds on the furniture with TIG, and switch to Stick for welding tractor attachments.
Since it's hobby, though, I have to keep this within a reasonable budget. So, what do you think about TIG for my needs? What's an inexpensive TIG unit that you would recommend? (I'm assuming I'll need a square wave unit to weld aluminum, correct?)
There isn't a whole lot in info out there on plasma arc welding (PAW), or not that I can find. Most of the machines seem to be cutters rather than welders, and the PAW's that I have found are huge automated machines. The only comment I've seen is "it's similar to TIG, but easier". Sounds good to me. Does anyone know of any web-sites that list info and suppliers specifically on PAW? Can you weld as well as cut with one of the Plasma cutters?
I've found a local supply that has a demo room with all types of welders available to try. Unfortunately, they're not open on weekends, but I'm going to try to take a long lunch sometime very soon and go try a good quality SMAW, MIG, and TIG unit.
Dave
In a standard transformer welder, the Miller EconoTig and the Hobart TigMate are your entry level machines. I'd venture to guess either of these two machines would run about $1200.
The next step up is the Lincoln Squarewave 175 pro (which I own) and the Miller Syncrowave 180 SD. These two typically run in the $1500-1600 range.
There's also the smaller inverter style machines, but I've not done much research to know their prices, etc.
I just talked with someone at www.HTPWeld.com. These folks make the small inverter-type TIG welders that you mentioned. Here's a URL:
http://www.htpweld.com/product_page/tig_welder/tig150.html
Anyway, the retail price for the InverTIG100 is $399, and the InverTIG 130 is $529. They only sell direct to the public, so the only way to try one is to buy it. However, they have a 90-day return policy where you get a full refund except for shipping (which shouldn't be that much given the unit weighs only 12 lbs). Very interesting. This unit is DC-only, not square-wave, so it'll only weld steel (right?).
The InverTIG 200 is AC/DC square-wave (will do aluminum, right?) and it's $2200.
Just thought I'd post these details since you mentioned this type machine!
Dave
You also need continuous high frequency to weld aluminum. Do any of these models have this feature?
I looked at the invertig 200. If it is everything it says it is, it is the only machine that you will need. $2200 is a lot of money for a starter but that is cheap for everything that it does. about the only thing that it lacks is a stand alone wire unit. Probably another $300. So for $2500 you will be able to weld anything. I.E. M.I.G., T.I.G. and stick. Man it even has a pulse option. Wow. The only thing that I would be apprehensive about is dependibility. One time I thought that I would save money by buying a no name chop saw. I made one cut on .065 tubing and it broke. the saw only cost $35. Man that was an expensive cut. Be careful, Find out about the warranty before you buy. Will they let you try it for 30 days first. Miller and Lincoln have three year warranty's. Does HTP? Good luck. And let me know if you buy it. I might buy one myself.
These are really good questions. I don't know, but I'd certainly find out before even considering a machine that expensive. It certainly sounds good. Since I'm a newbie at this, my most likely approach would be to start with the Invertig 100 , since it runs off 110V power and is reasonably inexpensive. (After visiting a demo room somewhere to see if I can even start to get the hang of TIG, of course.) That way, I can determine if TIG welding is something that I can learn without too steep of a learning curve. If it's not, I return the unit before the 90 days are up. If I've made some progress and feel like it's worth continuing to work on the skill, then I'd probably keep the Invertig 100 and eventually buy the Invertig 200, one of the Millers or other name brands that can do aluminum also. (Someone suggested mastering one metal at a time, and that sounds like good advice to me.) If I can get a decent looking weld after a weekend with the Invertig 100 (yeah, right!), then I'm probably on the right track. If not, I can return it, and chalk it up as figuring out what I can't possibly do well, given my skill level and the time I have to experiment with it. Part of the fun for me is the learning, so that's one reason I'm considering so many different types of units.
Dave
I take it your looking for a "cheap way out" with your equipement purchase? When your talking welding equipment, you definately get what you pay for.
The P.A.W. machine in Harbor Freight simply looks like an expensive toy to me. The HTP welders look attractive, but there still no big bargain. Find a local dealer and use them as your recourse and buy your equipment from them.
A $500 welder might look attractive right now, but you'll likely outgrow it in a year or two as your skills improve and your projects become more varied. I'm talking from experience here owning two small 100 amp Mig "toys".
I'd say Mig is probably your best choice. properly set up, splatter is minimal, so cleanup after welding is gonna be limited. Tig is much more of an artform in welding and takes a great deal of skill to do well. I've had my Lincoln Tig for two years and I'd say my skills are still in need of improvement. If you weld every day, it's easier to get good as compared to a hobbyist like you and myself where we may weld once every couple weeks.
I know how hard it is to spend large $$$ for an expensive machine...My Tig cost me $1600 two years ago, and the Mig cost me $1700 I bought just two weeks ago. I'm a stay at home father, so it's even harder for me to save any money working one day a week for my "play toys" budget. Now that I have both machines, I'm very glad I made the choice to get good machines as I can now weld nearly anything I run into with my hobby (race cars) and buying top quality machines gives me the confidence my investment will last me a long, long time.
make your decision wisely.
Goose:
You're absolutely right. I have limited time to dink with it, so I need something that has a reasonably short learning curve. I went for "quick and dirty" with this first welder purchase (the gasless unit from Harbor Freight). The fact is, it makes a pretty good weld (appears to be plenty strong with pretty good penetration), my only issues are that 1) it requires a huge amount of cleanup work, and 2) you can't weld aluminum with self-shielding FCAW. I don't know what the best answer is yet (considering all factors like appearance of weld, skill level required, cost of machine, etc.), but that's why I'm asking so many questions, researching different models, and plan to go try some at a supply store's demo room. Fortunately/unfortunately, I'm one of those folks who can't make a decision without most of the facts, and there's certainly a lot of minor details that have a major impact with the topic of welding! I really appreciate all the answers and tips folks have tossed out also. I've got a lot to learn about this topic. At this point, it's still a case of "I don't know what I don't know"! <g>
Dave
Dave,
My advice is to take your problem to the Instructor at your local community college. There is a strong possibility that you can challenge your way into one of the more advanced classes, where he might allow you to bring in some of your project stuff and try out a full selection of powersources and processes. You will have a chance to use Stick, Mig, Fluxcore, duel, and Tig. You will learn the limitations of each. (They All have limitations). A properly set up mig can do a heck of alot of work. Shoot, once the thing set up right you don't have to lift your hood until the spool runs out. (This is why most welders don't last long in sweatshops). Anyhow, This is the cheapest way to get your hands on the greatest amount of tooling.
Lawrence
Lawrence:
That's a really good suggestion. I'll start with the welding supply shop's demo room, and if I don't get the answers I need there, then I'll seek out a welding class.
I was originally thinking MIG would probably be the best answer, since I'm already accustomed to my cheap little gasless FCAW welder. I know with this machine, I spend maybe 15 minutes welding, then a couple of hours grinding to remove all the spatter and to smooth out the ugly, bumpy welds it produces (or maybe the problem is the operator, not the machine...<g>!) My impression is that MIG, setup correctly, will produce a much nicer looking weld than my current FCAW welder, but not as neat and clean as a TIG welder. So, I guess I'm wondering what the mix of welding vs. grinding for cleanup will be with each type of machine. I know it's 15 minutes/2 hours for my current FCAW. I gather from what I read that it should be maybe 1 hour/no cleanup grinding with TIG. What should I expect this split to be for MIG?
At this point, I don't even know if I have the potential to develop the skill to use a TIG welder, especially given this is "hobby" use at this point. However, that's one of the things I should be able to figure out by trying a few different types of welding processes/machines, right?
Dave
Oh, and btw the way, that's why I'm so interested in finding some info about PAW. From comments I've seen, I gather it's as "clean" as TIG, but doesn't require nearly as much skill. (Sounds like the perfect combination for a newbie/hobbyist like me!)
Regards,
Dave
I would have to say go with the GTAW equipment. No clean up of completed welds provided you know how to use the machine.
Just a side note: You can use the Lincoln AC/DC arc welders (or most other CC power supplies) for a TIG power supply with the DC only. I made a small control box that had solenoids for the power cable and gas. Solenoids were heavy duty truck parts. The whole thing cost me <$500 to rig up including the cost of the welding machine. I bought used air cooled torches and that's it! Very economical way to TIG weld small items. These machines have a relatively smooth arc for this purpose. They are good little stick welders as well (their primary function). Please also note this was about 13 years ago, so the cost of parts are sure to be higher.
Now using a Thermadyne GTAW/SMAW inverter. Have already posted thoughts on this machine (see: red vs blue). You will be spending serious $$ if you want to go with PAW. This equipment is not cheap.
The best advise is to just ask questions and go down to your local welding supply shop and pick their brains. I went through the same thing as you back in Feb. Ordering through the mail has its benefits, but establishing a relationship with a local shop is far better. Sure, you might pay a few dollars more for the same machine. Most places will work with you on the price anyway, but when you have a problem or a question that's where your shafted if you order from the mail. You'll be talking to "Mary" that has probably never seen a welder, and might more than likely not even know what it is. I started looking at a Lincoln Weld-Pac 100 at first and I think they sold for around 500 bux. After two monts of looking on Ebay, and talking to people I ended up buying one of Lincolns newest welders, the Precision Tig 275. I exceeded my initial budget by about $2300.00 but Ill tell you one thing, I wont be buying another welder for a LONG time. I'm just a beginer, but after doing my homework I'll tell you two things. I personally think Tig is the way to go and it isn't imposible to learn. Also you get what you pay for, I think if it was in you budget to go for the Lincoln Tig 175 or the Miller Econotig.
Just my .02 worth.
John
Right on the mark. I agree 100%. I have been burned to many times getting whats cheap over getting what I want. Oh, and T.I.G., Once you get it, It's the easiest thing in the world.
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