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Up Topic American Welding Society Services / AWS Learning & Education / Tig Filler Question
- - By SCweld (*) Date 04-14-2010 15:43
I have wondered this for a while and never really got a good answer to it.  An electrode is what conducts the electricity and estalishes the arc.  In some cases, of course, the electrode is consumed as in stick or mig welding and in some cases it is non-consumable as in tig.  All these electric arc processes use an E for electrode since it conducts the electricity to the arc.  Why do tig filler classifications include the E?  Wouldn't the classification be more accurate if it was simple R309L or R70S-2?  Just wondering what your thoughts are on this matter.
Parent - By jsdwelder (***) Date 04-14-2010 16:27
I believe that it's because it is intended to be used with an electric process and not for OAW
Parent - - By Lawrence (*****) Date 04-14-2010 17:35 Edited 04-14-2010 17:38
Thats a good question SC

The designation "ER" is given because the product *can* be used as either a rod or an electrode...

Tig wire is cut into usable lengths but the wire itself could be just as easily rolled onto a spool and used as an electrode wire for GMAW or SAW...  The composition remains the same whether it us used in straight lengths for rod or rolled on a spool for GMAW/SAW.

This is why some folks simply pull wire off a roll of ER308L for example and use it for GTAW...  It can be both.

R45 would be an example of a bare wire that is not also used for an electrode... It does not have the composition to do double duty and is used almost exclusively for gas welding.
Parent - - By SCweld (*) Date 04-15-2010 16:24
Yeah, that's pretty much the explanation I give as well and we often cut mig wire when we need smaller diameter than what we have available in tig rod.  My students come up with some interesting questions sometimes.  I have also had the question of why do they use the R for rod in mig since it is spooled,  the other student will say its because it is solid rod rolled onto a spool, the other- no that's what the S is for to indicate solid you don't use S for FCAW its T for tubular and it doesn't use R in its classification, well its R to indicate it is not a consumable insert or in another consumable form, the other- well then why don't they use R in SMAW it is in rod form, well probably it has a flux coating, and so on and so on.  I quess its good they are interested and they think but sometimes I want them to just shut up and weld.
Parent - - By js55 (*****) Date 04-15-2010 17:08
Depending upon the application of the weld you may wish to acetone the wire if using GMAW for GTAW since many spooled wires will come with drawing compound still on them whereas the GTAW cut wires don't.
Parent - By SCweld (*) Date 04-15-2010 18:12
Very good point!
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 04-19-2010 22:24
it sounds like people are reading too much into this. The specifications are mostly to classify thing rather than be a definitive literal description so things get a nominal naming and it doesn't change for decades. for example technically most MIG welding is actually MAG welding, not a lot of people make this distinction though.

When a supplier delivers GTAW welding rod it usually is the exact same composition and batch as GMAW wire it's just straigthened cleaned and cut to a usable length. one company I worked at did just buy spools of GMAW wire for stainless steel because we mostly did MIG and the few times we did need to do GTaw on stainless steel it was easy enough to snip a piece off and use it.

And technically you could use a straight rod of wire for GMAW assuming you had a straight barrel torch.
Anyways the reason FCAW has T is because it nominally stands for tubular and also the composition varies as it has fluxes and may gain or lose alloying elements from it.  T came at a later date, so if wire does not have T its assumed to be solid, no need to spell it out unless you plan on providing wire as a liquid.

If calling mig spools ER really bothers some people just tell them the R stands for "roll" as in a roll of wire.
Parent - - By SCweld (*) Date 04-20-2010 00:12
We have some lively discussions in the welding course which is good but I agree they tend to read too much into things.  I am a stickler for them understanding the classifications for when they get out into the real world though.  I keep telling them that welding in the booth is the best they will ever have it so they better get damn good in here.  I don't discourage them from discussing these things though.  They will argue during breaks and challenge each others knowledge on certian subjects which is good.

As far as the R for roll, I never heard that one.  It's funny.
Parent - By 803056 (*****) Date 04-20-2010 04:53
Another entry for the upcoming edition of the Farm Code.

Best regards - Al
Parent - - By Metarinka (****) Date 04-23-2010 17:30
GMAW-S stands for spool, as in use a spool gun.

glad I could provide some entertainment.
Parent - - By SCweld (*) Date 04-23-2010 18:16
I love it.

You should see some of the responses I get for tungsten electrode classifications.

One I loved, which the student put as a joke after he answered it correctly, was an answer for what does EWTh-2 mean.

His answer: Electric Welding That's hard and only 2% of my welds look good.

His answer (ironically) for EWP:  what you should put on my evaluation "Exceptional Welding Potential"
Parent - By welderbrent (*****) Date 04-23-2010 20:13
You obviously gave him one bonus point for creativity.  I am curious as to rather he knew enough serious answers to pass?

Have a Great Day,  Brent
Up Topic American Welding Society Services / AWS Learning & Education / Tig Filler Question

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